3-4 Positional needs

[imcorrect]

I found this on the web and it got me thinking about our front 7.

• 3-4 NT is the toughest position to fill. The NT is head-up on the OC and is responsible for defending both A gaps in the running game. He faces constant double-teams and takes a pounding. He must have size, mental and physical toughness, stamina, durability, lateral quickness, and good technique in terms of playing with leverage. If the NT can not hold his ground, the defense is very vulnerable to runs between the tackles. The prototypical 3-4 NT is the Raiders' Ted Washington, who is a massive 6-5 365. Washington was the key to the Patriots win over the Panthers in the 2004 Super Bowl. Stephen Davis ran for a meager 19 yards on his first 9 carries, because Washington effectively stuffed the middle of the line. Other quality NTs include the Steelers' Casey Hampton (6-1 320) and the Chargers' Jamal Williams (6-2 348)
• 3-4 OLBs are the playmakers of the D. They get the glory of picking up sacks on the QB. They must have strong pass rush skills and be able to drop into coverage. If the 3-4 OLBs are unable to consistently apply pressure on the QB, the D is very vulnerable in the passing game. They tend to weigh around 245-270, and many are former 4-3 DE/OLB "tweeners". Many 4-3 DEs are not suited to playing 3-4 OLB because they lack the ability to play in space. The more agile 4-3 RDEs, such as the Jets' John Abraham (6-4 256), are able to play both 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLB. Many 4-3 OLBs are not suited to playing 3-4 OLB because they lack the pass rush skills and the ability to go toe-to-toe with an OT. Examples of solid 3-4 OLBs are the Patriots' Willie McGinest (6-5 270) and the Steelers' Joey Porter (6-2 248)
• 3-4 DEs tend to weigh around 290-310, and many are former 4-3 DT/DE "tweeners". They must be able to play the run well. The 3-4 DE is responsible for the B and C gaps in the running game and lines up in the 5-technique position, so he is head-up on the OT. It's tough for a 3-4 DE to pick up as many sacks as a 4-3 DE, because a 3-4 DE doesn't have the freedom to go willy nilly upfield. He has to protect the LBs in order for the 3-4 to work. Panthers' 4-3 DE Julius Peppers said he did not like playing 3-4 DE because he felt like he was essentially a DT. Unlike Peppers (6-6 290), most 4-3 DEs are not suited to playing 3-4 DE, because they lack the size and ability to hold up against the run. Examples of solid 3-4 DEs are the Patriots' Richard Seymour (6-6 310), the Steelers' Aaron Smith (6-5 300), and the Raiders' Bobby Hamilton (6-5 285)
• 3-4 ILBs must be stout in run support. Because there are only 3 DL to match up against 5 OL, they must be able to stack and shed an unblocked offensive lineman in the running game. How hard is it to play 3-4 ILB? Check out this telling quote by All-Pro Ray Lewis, who is glad to be finished playing 3-4 ILB (the Ravens are switching from the 3-4 to the 4-3 and 46 for the 2005 season):

So who fits these needs for us?

To me it seems Dorsey does have the skill set for NT he just needs to put on 20-40 pounds. If Hali is going to be used mainly as a rusher on passing downs, who will play DE? We look to be set at both LB positions, especially if we draft another one. I know this has been talked to death in here but a lot of people just say "he could play this" without supporting evidence. So now that we are all educated, who goes where and why?

[balto]

DE-Get in Draft
DE-Dorsey
NT-Tank

OLB-Get in Draft
OLB-Hali
ILB-Vrabel
ILB-DJ

So we just need two guys from draft

[jmlamerson]

To me it seems Dorsey does have the skill set for NT he just needs to put on 20-40 pounds. If Hali is going to be used mainly as a rusher on passing downs, who will play DE? We look to be set at both LB positions, especially if we draft another one. I know this has been talked to death in here but a lot of people just say "he could play this" without supporting evidence. So now that we are all educated, who goes where and why?

Not to be an a$$, but how can you list the qualities of a NT and then write that Dorsey has the skills to be one? Dorsey has the skills to be a good gap DT in a Cover 2 defense. Put him in a Cover 2 defense with a big guy next to him (think Kevin Williams/Pat Williams or Warren Sapp/Anthony McFarland) and he can be a high motor sack threat. But he is specifically unsuited to be a NT. He doesn't have the strength or the ability to go one on one with an OL, much less fight a double team.

Tank is closer to a NT, and he has the strength for one, but I don't think he has the motor or talent. Like Dorsey, he was getting blown up most downs in 2008. He'd need to put on 20 lbs as well.

I think we either draft a NT or pick one up in FA because our current guys won't be able to handle it. I think Tank is our backup NT in 2009.

As for DE, I can't see Hali getting much work next year. Maybe they'll try him at OLB in preseason. Maybe they'll use him as a situational rusher. But he won't be our full-time DE, I can't think. I think we try Dorsey as a 3-4 DE and pick one or two up in the draft or FA.

Right now, our four LBs are DL/Vrabel/Beisel/Williams. I have to think we draft an ILB later in the draft because Beisel and Vrabel aren't every down guys any more.

You forgot FS as well. Look at every successful 3-4. It has a hard-hitting FS who's decent in coverage. You know, the exact opposite of Page. Again, FA or the draft seems likely.

I think Pollard has the chance to be a Polamalu-type SS in the 3-4, and both Flowers and Carr are physical enough for the job at CB.

In closing, we need (in order):

NT
DE
FS
ILB

We could also use some more depth at DE and OLB. In short, more than we can realistically get only in the draft. My draft wish:

1st round: Raji (NT) - just tie the position down for the next decade

3rd round: Best RT

4th round: Best DE

5th round: Best FS

6th round: Best ILB

7th round: Best OLB and best DE

[tornadospotter]

Why does a NT have to be tall? Why does a NT have to out weigh the centers or guards?
Just asking?

[tornadospotter]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmZM9c5HQqY"]YouTube - THIS IS LSU FOOTBALL PART IV: MEET THE DEFENSE PART I[/ame]

[bigpoppachief]

Im with you man I think Dorsey is going to go down as one of the best DT EVER ! We dont need Raji !

[AussieChiefsFan]

Im with you man I think Dorsey is going to go down as one of the best DT EVER ! We dont need Raji !

With you guys too!:smilies_musik45:

[jap1]

Why does a NT have to be tall? Why does a NT have to out weigh the centers or guards?
Just asking?

NT dont have to be tall. Some even argue that height can be a disadvantage for NTs. NT dont need to outweigh the C's and G's either. However, they do need to OVERPOWER them. A NT is supposed to be an immovable wall or, even better, be able to push the C and G back into the RB/QB's face.

Because of the fact that heavier people are harder to move, many people use weight as an estimation of the NT's ability to not get pushed back.

If a NT can be really strong, get good leverage (i.e. get lower than the OL which is why I argue that height is unimportant), and have a strong lower body drive then they probably have the basic phsyical skills necessary for the position.

[yashi]

I really think we should draft Raji... I've been on and off the Raji bandwagon, and then on and off the Curry bandwagon, and also the Monroe/Smith one. But I think Raji improves the team more than Curry does because of the position he plays, and we can get a good OT in the 3rd round.

Raji compliments Dorsey very well. And if we're running a 3-4/4-3 hybrid, Dorsey can slide from 3-4 DE to DT in the 4-3 packages next to Raji. For me, this suddenly makes the hybrid scheme play well to our personnel.

The biggest problem with Curry is that it's not difficult to get a good LB, but it is very difficult to get a good NT. The same goes for OTs, good ones are found in the later rounds of every draft.

There's been a lot of talk about Raji's character, but I read a quote from him saying that missing 2007 because of academic probation humbled him. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he had any problems this year.

I read this article I found the other day, which makes a very convincing argument.

Why BJ Raji Makes Sense for the Kansas City Chiefs’ Transition To a 3-4 Defense | NFL Sport Channel

Seriously, watch this and tell me you don't want him on this team.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAs7UtO5-S4"]YouTube - BJ Raji uses one Notre Dame player to tackle another.[/ame]

[brish]

I'd love for us to pick Curry at the no. 3, but if we are serious about the 3-4 then I think we have to give Raji some serious thought. Im just not sure anyone currently on the roster, can fill the position as NT to satisfaction.

And lets be honest, its a pretty damn important position in a 3-4.
Im just damn hooked on Curry, cause I 100% sure he is going to be a pro bowl LB for many years to come.

Anywho.. In Pioli i trust! ;)