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  1. #1
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    Default The ONLY political and religious thread allowed on Chiefscrowd


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    Clinton, McCain emerge as comeback winners in New Hampshire primary



    WASHINGTON - Democrat Hillary Clinton pulled off an unexpected narrow victory in New Hampshire on Tuesday, dramatically rescuing her bid for the White House in a tense battle with Barack Obama.
    Clinton, who's fighting to become the first woman in the Oval Office, mounted a surprisingly strong showing after bracing for a second defeat following her devastating third-place showing in Iowa.
    Democratic presidential hopeful Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y. greets a familiar face. THE ASSOCIATED PRESS/Elise Amendola
    Republican John McCain also nabbed a major comeback victory, putting him solidly back in his party's nomination race.
    While Obama, vying to make history as the first black U.S. president, scored big among independents and voters between 18 and 24, Clinton attracted lower-income voters and seniors and did best among voters citing the economy as their top concern.
    But a big factor for Clinton was women voters, who had gone over to Obama in large numbers in Iowa. Nearly half in New Hampshire were once again supporting her, while Obama got only a third.






    http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/080108/w0108115A.html







    Crap.
    http://arrowheadjunkies.com/pictures/PhotoShop/sig_pics/NFL_Players/kansas_city_chiefs/tyson.jackson/062009/tyson.jackson.500.png

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcvet View Post
    I also heard if passed your issued a gov card. if you don't have one come tax time you'll be fined up to $2200.
    I was also laid off in 2001. but I had enough time in to take early retirement. and my wife still works. so far. I have good ins and I don't want to be put on this system. many do have their own ins. why don't they make it voluntary for the uninsured and leave the rest of us alone????

    That is what I was talking about getting fined and I have also heard that you would be ticketed after that fine also. It does not make sense to require me to buy insur I cant afford or get fined if I cant afford it regardless if I wanted to be on it or not. They wont make in voluntary due to the fact that a lrg amount of ppl in the US dont have insur. That is exactly what they are saying is wrong with the health care system. Yes, many do have some sort of insur but there are plenty that have below avg health care. As far as leaving the rest of you alone that really sounds very selfish simply due to the fact that you have good insur. From what I understand, the people that have insur will be unaffected by these new laws. You will still be able to keep your insur.

  3. #1872
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtandcrew View Post
    That is what I was talking about getting fined and I have also heard that you would be ticketed after that fine also. It does not make sense to require me to buy insur I cant afford or get fined if I cant afford it regardless if I wanted to be on it or not. They wont make in voluntary due to the fact that a lrg amount of ppl in the US dont have insur. That is exactly what they are saying is wrong with the health care system. Yes, many do have some sort of insur but there are plenty that have below avg health care. As far as leaving the rest of you alone that really sounds very selfish simply due to the fact that you have good insur. From what I understand, the people that have insur will be unaffected by these new laws. You will still be able to keep your insur.
    selfish??? my tax $$$ have to pay for this to. we all pay for it. just like the failed stim pack. which our childrens children will be paying for.

    the people that have insur will be unaffected by these new laws. You will still be able to keep your insur.
    after all his broken promise's you believe this ????
    trust but verify
    http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=1540&dateline=1380047  325]

  4. #1873
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    Yes, our tax $ pay for it. Yes, I still have to pay taxes while on unemployment. How much of our tax $'s are going to pay for the illegal immigrants that cross the border everyday? Why do you think the gov is trying to give them all amnesty to get them legal if not atleast work status in the US? That way they can track them for their tax $. Which imo should have to pay also. Do I trust his words with all the broken promises? Hell, no! I dont really trust any politician (rep or dem) due to the fact that they will saying anything the majority of the people want to hear. Bottom line, my point is that health care costs to much. The gov needs to require that the health insur comps do rates the same as auto insur comps do. The more you use it the more you pay. I had not used my health insur in the last 10 yrs. Nor have NEVER used my car insur. Though my health insur went up every yr and my car insur goes down. The gov wants to require everyone to carry health insur the same as they do auto insur. Require them to charge the same way. Im not so worried about my tax $ going to help ppl afford health insur as I am insur comp charging more for health care to cover costs of those who abuse it. Also, for that matter, When someone goes to the hospital for care and dont have insur? What does the hospital do? They jack up the prices to take the tax write off or they turn it into their own insur. Even if you have good insur im sure your rates are going higher each yr. If not your 1 of the lucky few. Also you also have your VA benefits to fall back on (which you have rightly earned) although I know that those benefits are not as good as private health insur. My father-in-law spent his entire career in the Navy and spent 20+ yrs helping to fight the gov for the tri care for life benefits for veterans and spouses. Either way there has to be something done to soaring costs for health care and everyone has their own plan to fix it.

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    I tried to tell but you seemed intent on voting for Obama. Now you are all ticked about how much he wants to spend and needing taxes to pay for that spending. You can't say I didn't try to tell you...
    <a href=http://i48.tinypic.com/2ihmnft.gif target=_blank>http://i48.tinypic.com/2ihmnft.gif</a>

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canada View Post
    What about a kid whose parents work for min wage and cant afford insurance. That kid dosent deserve help?
    EEEEEEXACTLY!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanilla Garilla View Post
    EEEEEEXACTLY!
    Actually we have lots of programs for people in that position already. Anyone making minimum wage in this country who also have children are below the poverty level and there is Medicare, Welfare and any number of other social programs who will help them.

    Also, most hospitals in this country are non-profit and if you are sick and below the poverty level, they will still treat you.

    I have no problem with these programs, and what most of you don't know is that this issue IS NOT going to be repaired with any bill currently being offered.

    In fact, if you really read the bill, all it says is that everyone MUST have insurance, if it is not provided, then you can buy it from an exchange, but everyone has to have it. So that person making minimum wage, now has even LESS money to spend as the Government will be taking the insurance premiums away from them in the form of higher deductions on what money they do make.

    In Canada, everyone get's healthcare for free, here in the states, the bill being presented is nothing like that.


    Are you man enough? Eric Berry? Apparently Not!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayvern View Post
    Actually we have lots of programs for people in that position already. Anyone making minimum wage in this country who also have children are below the poverty level and there is Medicare, Welfare and any number of other social programs who will help them.

    These programs are great, but many people are right above the line for these programs, that still cant afford insurance premiums.

    Also, most hospitals in this country are non-profit and if you are sick and below the poverty level, they will still treat you.

    Yeah and they will even send you a nice little gift wrapped bill that is more than the said family in poverty level could possibly pay off.

    I have no problem with these programs, and what most of you don't know is that this issue IS NOT going to be repaired with any bill currently being offered.

    In fact, if you really read the bill, all it says is that everyone MUST have insurance, if it is not provided, then you can buy it from an exchange, but everyone has to have it. So that person making minimum wage, now has even LESS money to spend as the Government will be taking the insurance premiums away from them in the form of higher deductions on what money they do make.

    Actually, The new bill would allow the uninsured too:

    Creates a new insurance marketplace – the Exchange – that allows
    people without insurance and small businesses to compare plans and buy
    insurance at competitive prices.
    • Provides new tax credits to help people buy insurance and to help small
    businesses cover their employees.
    • Offers a public health insurance option to provide the uninsured who
    can’t find affordable coverage with a real choice.
    • Offers new, low-cost coverage through a national “high risk” pool to
    protect people with preexisting conditions from financial ruin until the
    new Exchange is created.


    In Canada, everyone get's healthcare for free, here in the states, the bill being presented is nothing like that.

    And to finish, nothing is free! They pay higher taxes all around for their health care system. However, a system like theirs is something that I would like for our country.
    See red, lol.

  9. #1878
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    Kevin Andersen
    Persuasive Speech
    September 6, 2009

    Health Care in the United States needs a complete overhaul, to say the least. How many of us have gone to get a prescription filled and found out that the medication we need is way above our budget? How many of us have had to go to the doctors without insurance, and in return we receive a bill that will take us a year or better to pay off? Unfortunately too many of us have, and with the growing list of people Unemployed, the numbers are rising. In a report done by the U.S Census Bureau, in 2007 45.7 million Americans were uninsured, at a rate of 15.3 percent of the population[i]. Basically those statistics show that one in every six people has no health coverage, and that is a scary thought.

    The number of uninsured, outrageous prescription drug prices and health care prices are a huge problem in our country, and it needs to be solved. The government is currently hard at work trying to pass legislation on a new health care reform bill, although I personally feel that they are not doing enough, and there are some easier solutions that could be installed. To be able to find a reasonable solution, we must fully understand the problems that we face.

    The first and largest glaring problem we face with our nation’s health care problem is the uninsured. So you might ask yourself, why are so many people uninsured? Well the main reason people do not have health care coverage is simply because they cannot afford it. According to the Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundations’ Employee Health Benefits 2008 Annual Insurance Survey, insurancepremiums have increased 119 percent for employers since 1999 and employee spending for health insurance coverage ( which is the employee’s share of family coverage) has increased 117 percent between 1999 and 2008[ii]. With the average annual worker premiums being $694 for single coverage, and $3,281 for Family, this is a large amount of money for any family to pay, especially those in the middle class or lower status.

    This problem goes hand in hand also with the unemployment rate, which according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, was at 9.7% in the month of August[iii] With so many people out of work, it is almost impossible for these unemployed workers to afford any kind of coverage. It even affects people that are on temporary layoff, such as me. I was laid off for three months this spring, and was notified that the employees, who are on layoff, must pay both the companies insurance costs, and the employees, which bumped my family coverage premium up to $990 a month, which was unaffordable. These kinds of actions are necessary by the companies we work for because without a workload, they cannot simply afford to stay in business if they are paying all of their laid off employees’ health premiums and this is a huge problem. The government has a program called COBRA, which is designed to help temporarily laid off or terminated employees keep their health coverage, but as Michelle Singletary of the Washington Post stated, “Family coverage can cost on average about $1,000 a month, according to Families USA, a national nonprofit. The average monthly COBRA premium for individual coverage is $388.”[iv]

    Many in Washington, and across the country have wondered, “What can we do about this problem?” While there are many possible solutions, I personally feel that the best and most complete way to solve this problem is to nationalize health care, and make it available to every legal resident of the United States. Many of you will probably ask, “How will we pay for it?” The answer is obvious to me; the government could put a higher tax on the products that contribute to rising health costs and health problems, items such as: tobacco, alcohol, junk food, and even Fast Food. All of these items listed cause a great deal of illness including: Cancer, Heart Disease, Lung Disease, Diabetes, Obesity, and General Health issues. So by taxing these items higher, it would in return lower the consumption amount, and therefore lower the risk of the health problems I listed above, which would not only pay for the health coverage, but would drive down health care prices in general. There are a lot of other options available to pay for a national health care system as well, such as: Ending the war in Iraq, Decriminalizing, legalizing, and taxing marijuana, which would free up a crowded and expensive prison system, create jobs, and provide a great deal of income from taxes.

    With all of these viable options to pay for universal health care, it is very surprising to me that there is not a system set in place. According to a report by the Institute of Medicine of the National Academies, The United States is the only Industrial Nation that does not have universal health care[v].
    A country as great, promising, optimistic, and successful as ours should definitely have Universal Health Care. There is really no excuse for a system not to be set up and running by now, hopefully with this new administration one will be started, if not then our health care problems will continue to rise, and will continue to burden the great people of our country.

    [i] DeNavas-Walt, C.B. Proctor, and J. Smith. Income, Poverty, and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2007. U.S. Census Bureau., August 2008.

    [ii] The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation. Employee Health Benefits: 2008 Annual Survey. September 2008. 2007 Kaiser/HRET Employer Health Benefits Survey - Kaiser Family Foundation


    [iii] Employment Situation Summary, BLS September 6, 2009. Employment Situation Summary


    [iv] The Color Of Money, Michelle Singletary, Helping Laid Off Workers Pay For Health Insurance, Thursday March 5th, 2009. The Washington Post. Michelle Singletary - Helping Laid-Off Workers Pay for Health Insurance - washingtonpost.com


    [v] ^ a b Insuring America's Health: Principles and Recommendations, Institute of Medicine at the National Academies of Science, 2004-01-14

  10. #1879
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    Just thought I'd give the other side VG.

    Good Intentions Aren't Enough with Health Care Reform
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    Saturday, October 17, 2009 at 10:57pm

    Now that the Senate Finance Committee has approved its health care bill, it’s a good time to step back and take a look at the long term consequences should its provisions be enacted into law.

    The bill prohibits insurance companies from refusing coverage to people with pre-existing conditions and from charging sick people higher premiums. [1] It attempts to offset the costs this will impose on insurance companies by requiring everyone to purchase coverage, which in theory would expand the pool of paying policy holders.

    However, the maximum fine for those who refuse to purchase health insurance is $750. [2] Even factoring in government subsidies, the cost of purchasing a plan is much more than $750. The result: many people, especially the young and healthy, will simply not buy coverage, choosing to pay the fine instead. They’ll wait until they’re sick to buy health insurance, confident in the knowledge that insurance companies can’t deny them coverage. Such a scenario is a perfect storm for increasing the cost of health care and creating an unsustainable mandate program.

    Those driving this plan no doubt have good intentions, but good intentions aren’t enough. There were good intentions behind the drive to increase home ownership for lower-income Americans, but forcing financial institutions to give loans to people who couldn’t afford them had terrible unintended consequences. We all felt those consequences during the financial collapse last year. Unintended consequences always result from top-down big government plans like the current health care proposals, and we can’t afford to ignore that fact again.

    Supposedly the Senate Finance bill will be paid for by cutting Medicare by nearly half a trillion dollars and by taxing the so-called “Cadillac” health care plans enjoyed by many union members. The plan will also impose heavy taxes on insurers, pharmaceutical companies, medical device companies, and clinical labs. [3] The result of all of these taxes is clear. As Douglas Holtz-Eakin noted in the Wall Street Journal, these new taxes “will be passed on to consumers by either directly raising insurance premiums, or by fueling higher health-care costs that inevitably lead to higher premiums.” [4] Unfortunately, it will lead to lower wages too, as employees will have to sacrifice a greater percentage of their paychecks to cover these higher premiums. [5] In other words, if the Democrats succeed in overhauling health care, we’ll all bear the costs. The Senate Finance bill is effectively a middle class tax increase, and as Holtz-Eakin points out, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation those making less than $200,000 will be hit hardest. [6]

    With our country’s debt and deficits growing at an alarming rate, many of us can’t help but wonder how we can afford a new trillion dollar entitlement program. The president has promised that he won’t sign a health care bill if it “adds even one dime to our deficit over the next decade.” [7] But his administration also promised that his nearly trillion dollar stimulus plan would keep the unemployment rate below 8%. [8] Last month, our unemployment rate was 9.8%, the highest it’s been in 26 years. [9] At first the current administration promised that the stimulus would save or create 3 to 4 million jobs. [10] Then they declared that it created 1 million jobs, but the stimulus reports released this week showed that a mere 30,083 jobs have been created, while nearly 3.4 million jobs have been lost since the stimulus was passed. [11] Should we believe the administration’s claims about health care when their promises have proven so unreliable about the stimulus?

    In January 2008, presidential candidate Obama promised not to negotiate behind closed doors with health care lobbyists. In fact, he committed to “broadcasting those negotiations on C-SPAN so that the American people can see what the choices are. Because part of what we have to do is enlist the American people in this process. And overcoming the special interests and the lobbyists...” [12] However, last February, after serving only a few weeks in office, President Obama met privately at the White House with health care industry executives and lobbyists. [13] Yesterday, POLITICO reported that aides to President Obama and Democrat Senator Max Baucus met with corporate lobbyists in April to help “set in motion a multimillion-dollar advertising campaign, primarily financed by industry groups, that has played a key role in bolstering public support for health care reform.” [14] Needless to say, their negotiations were not broadcast on C-SPAN for the American people to see.

    Presidential candidate Obama also promised that he would not “sign any nonemergency bill without giving the American public an opportunity to review and comment on the White House Web site for five days.” [15] PolitiFact reports that this promise has already been broken three times by the current administration. [16] We can only hope that it won’t be broken again with health care reform.

    All of this certainly gives the appearance of politics-as-usual in Washington with no change in sight.

    Americans want health care reform because we want affordable health care. We don’t need subsidies or a public option. We don’t need a nationalized health care industry. We need to reduce health care costs. But the Senate Finance plan will dramatically increase those costs, all the while ignoring common sense cost-saving measures like tort reform. Though a Congressional Budget Office report confirmed that reforming medical malpractice and liability laws could save as much as $54 billion over the next ten years, tort reform is nowhere to be found in the Senate Finance bill. [17]

    Here’s a novel idea. Instead of working contrary to the free market, let’s embrace the free market. Instead of going to war with certain private sector companies, let’s embrace real private-sector competition and allow consumers to purchase plans across state lines. Instead of taxing the so-called “Cadillac” plans that people get through their employers, let’s give individuals who purchase their own health care the same tax benefits we currently give employer-provided health care recipients. Instead of crippling Medicare, let’s reform it by providing recipients with vouchers so that they can purchase their own coverage.

    Now is the time to make your voices heard before it’s too late. If we don’t fight for the market-oriented, patient-centered, and result-driven reform plan that we deserve, we’ll be left with the disastrous unintended consequences of the plans currently being cooked up in Washington.

    - Sarah Palin
    Last edited by Chiefster; 10-22-2009 at 01:56 AM.


  11. #1880
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    The thing that bugs me the most about these bills is that they do not address the real problems. Everyone is all too ready to "stick" it to the rich insurance companies, but no one is talking about "sticking" it to the rich pharmacuetical companies. How many advertisements for ****** and Cialis do you see everyday? I think by now, just about everyone knows about ******, and it isn't like you can buy a bottle over the counter anyway.

    Yet we are bombarded with commercials for this, how much money are they spending anyway? Do you know about the Doctor kick-backs that Pharmacuetical companies give doctors to prescribe their drugs?

    Anyway, what are we doing about the bottom line cost of health care?

    Health Insurance is not even insurance to begin with, think about it, I go buy an insurance policy just so I can go to the doctor? Compare health insurance to car insurance for instance. The insurance company is betting I won't get in an accident, and I am betting that I will. Health insurance is really a case of, we all know we are going to get sick, so I am going to pay X dollars per month so I can go to the doctor as I need to.

    Back in the old days, when I was a kid, we had health insurance, but it did not kick in unless something bad happened. If I needed a checkup or a flu shot, I just went to the doctor and my parents paid for it directly, now, we ask the Insurance company to pay for those things.

    Why is it that a flu shot costs so much, or why does a hospital charge me $35 for an aspirin, or $20 for a bandage?

    Look, the President says we are going to pass universal health care to control costs, but all that is doing is going after the insurance companies and trying to run them out of business. We are doing nothing to control health care costs, at least we are not TALKING about it, why is that?

    This administration knows what will happen when universal coverage is put into place, the costs to Government will increase and then they will have to start hitting the providers. They cannot hit the providers now because they clearly know that it will never pass if the public realizes that their care will be effected. But it WILL be effected, they are counting on the younger, less informed people in this country to get on the bandwagon because most of those people do not remember the government's attempts, or do not know what the government does when entering private industry the way they are trying to do now.


    Are you man enough? Eric Berry? Apparently Not!

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