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    Default The ONLY political and religious thread allowed on Chiefscrowd


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    Clinton, McCain emerge as comeback winners in New Hampshire primary



    WASHINGTON - Democrat Hillary Clinton pulled off an unexpected narrow victory in New Hampshire on Tuesday, dramatically rescuing her bid for the White House in a tense battle with Barack Obama.
    Clinton, who's fighting to become the first woman in the Oval Office, mounted a surprisingly strong showing after bracing for a second defeat following her devastating third-place showing in Iowa.
    Democratic presidential hopeful Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y. greets a familiar face. THE ASSOCIATED PRESS/Elise Amendola
    Republican John McCain also nabbed a major comeback victory, putting him solidly back in his party's nomination race.
    While Obama, vying to make history as the first black U.S. president, scored big among independents and voters between 18 and 24, Clinton attracted lower-income voters and seniors and did best among voters citing the economy as their top concern.
    But a big factor for Clinton was women voters, who had gone over to Obama in large numbers in Iowa. Nearly half in New Hampshire were once again supporting her, while Obama got only a third.






    http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/080108/w0108115A.html







    Crap.
    http://arrowheadjunkies.com/pictures/PhotoShop/sig_pics/NFL_Players/kansas_city_chiefs/tyson.jackson/062009/tyson.jackson.500.png

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    what's in Obamacare. has anyone read it???



    got them
    trust but verify
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    I would say that out of all of my friends here in Germany, about 80% of them asked me today if I knew the difference between Obamacare and ACA. They know I am American but I wish they knew I am not stupid. Do not know what is going on over there but wish the heads would get out of their butts and at least compromise on something. For one thing, Obamacare is happening, now Congress should act to make this bill better for all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcvet View Post
    what's in Obamacare. has anyone read it???
    Actually, I have read the Affordable Care Act law. Every word of it. Not all at once, of course. That would be insane. But over the course of time I have managed to wade my way through it. It's not that hard if you understand a little "legalese," but you have to do a lot of scrolling up and down because a lot of paragraphs refer to other paragraphs with "except as defined in paragraph 1(C)(ii)" and such. If you are interested the complete text of the law can be found right here. Keep in mind that 14 changes have already been made by Congress and 5 others have been imposed by Royal Decree ... I mean executive order of President Obama without the approval of Congress. More info
    ***Official Chiefs Crowd Game Thread Starter***

    Originally Posted by Name Withheld
    I don't think anything that's what wrong is nearly Smiths Falls we have no offense of line I think the coaches are free to call certain place I think he would absolutely do better with a different office of coordinator

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    Quote Originally Posted by mejohnm View Post
    It is sad that the Americans cannot, nor want to, take care of Americans.
    We all want to take care of those Americans that need help, but Democrats and Republicans disagree on what steps to take to best achieve that goal.

    Quote Originally Posted by mejohnm View Post
    This bill was made a couple of years ago now and there was enouh time for the parties to work out the bad parts of this bill out. But the Republicans just wanted to repeal it completely.
    That's not true at all. Your opinion is probably skewed by the fact that you are in Germany and the press there has presented a distorted picture of the facts. The truth is that Republicans have tried many times to make changes to the law but Democrats refuse to negotiate at all and won't even discuss making changes to it. Republicans have also introduced their own versions of healthcare reform but were "locked out" of the process when Democrats had a majority in both the House and Senate. (2008-2010). Republicans took control of the House after the 2010 elections specifically because they campaigned on stopping or reforming the Affordable Care Act. They have tried to work with Democrats, who control the Senate, to make the law better but have been rebuffed at every turn. All budgets originate in the House of Representatives, which the Republicans now control. If they want to represent their constituencies and do what their voters elected them to do, their only course of action at this point is to block funding for Obamacare.

    Quote Originally Posted by mejohnm View Post
    It is funny here in Europe how Americans do not want Obamacare but want the ACA.
    That is funny because Obamacare IS the ACA. They are exactly the same thing. The discrepancy is likely due to the fact that those Americans have no idea what is in the law. More of them oppose Obamacare because they don't like Obama. But a majority here in America oppose the law whether it is called Obamacare or the ACA.

    Quote Originally Posted by mejohnm View Post
    I would say that out of all of my friends here in Germany, about 80% of them asked me today if I knew the difference between Obamacare and ACA.
    Again, there is no difference. Obamacare is a nickname for the ACA.

    Quote Originally Posted by mejohnm View Post
    Do not know what is going on over there but wish the heads would get out of their butts and at least compromise on something. For one thing, Obamacare is happening, now Congress should act to make this bill better for all.
    There are many compromises that make the bill better but Democrats refuse to negotiate and even if you could get some of them to agree to change the worst parts of the law, Obama would veto the changes, and there are too many toadies in the Senate who are in lockstep with the almighty Obama for the house and Senate to get the 60%+ majority required to override his veto. For any significant change to come we (Republicans) will have to wait until after the mid-term elections (Nov. 2014) and gain control of both the House and the Senate.
    ***Official Chiefs Crowd Game Thread Starter***

    Originally Posted by Name Withheld
    I don't think anything that's what wrong is nearly Smiths Falls we have no offense of line I think the coaches are free to call certain place I think he would absolutely do better with a different office of coordinator

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    Quote Originally Posted by mejohnm View Post
    I would say that out of all of my friends here in Germany, about 80% of them asked me today if I knew the difference between Obamacare and ACA. They know I am American but I wish they knew I am not stupid. Do not know what is going on over there but wish the heads would get out of their butts and at least compromise on something. For one thing, Obamacare is happening, now Congress should act to make this bill better for all.
    The problem as I see it is that Obama is acting less like the leader of a free people elected from the masses and more like a dictator. I actually see the ACA and Obamacare as separate laws. The ACA is what congress voted on and Obama signed into law and Obamacare is what he's done to the ACA since then. Obama has unilaterally, indifference to the Constitution, changed the law as it was written and passed by congress giving exemptions and delays to his buddies. What Obama has done is actually an impeachable offense which is why, as the original framer of the Constitution, James Madison placed in control of the House of Representatives the purse strings in order to reign in an Executive branch that overreaches its authority without putting the country through an impeachment process.
    Last edited by Chiefster; 10-03-2013 at 12:47 AM.


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    I try to pay close attention to the bills being made up in Congress, could you link me to the bills that the Republicans were trying tobring as a compromise?

    Now you all claim Obama has changed the law, from the first link here is a passage which does not say he changed the law, just how it is executed which is his job. In fact it is the Republicans in Congress that are trying to be the executive branch by delaying this law that was passed by the Legislature branch.

    Mr. Obama has also acted on his own, declaring five separate delays this year. Most recently he announced one-year delays on checking the applicants for exchanges to see if they should have employer-based coverage.

    Now to say he has given exemptions to his buddies, or toCongress, etc. There have been so many reports that these exemptions are nottrue. In fact, a discussion show here in Germany brought this up and this wasbrought up. Where ever this was brought up, it just is not fact. Big business doget an extra year to implement.

    Now why cannot the Republicans just let this go. If itindeed turns out to be bad, then it can be reversed. And if they really did tryto make another bill for healthcare or to change this without getting rid ofthe good parts, like coverage for people with pre-conditions under the sameprice, then I guess the rest of the world also missed it because no one seemsto have heard it.

    Around the world, Americans, or in this case, the republicans are being made out to be heartless people. I was republican when Imoved to Germany. I was very pro-Bush. After some years here and seeing how a good system can work, it woke me up and I could see how bad things really are in the USA. Love the USA, love the Chiefs, but I do not see USA staying in one piece if this keeps up. That is with either party being President or not. The President cannot lead a room full of people that do not want to be lead.
    Last edited by mejohnm; 10-03-2013 at 03:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chiefster View Post
    The problem as I see it is that Obama is acting less like the leader of a free people elected from the masses and more like a dictator. I actually see the ACA and Obamacare as separate laws. The ACA is what congress voted on and Obama signed into law and Obamacare is what he's done to the ACA since then. Obama has unilaterally, indifference to the Constitution, changed the law as it was written and passed by congress giving exemptions and delays to his buddies. What Obama has done is actually an impeachable offense which is why, as the original framer of the Constitution, James Madison placed in control of the House of Representatives the purse strings in order to reign in an Executive branch that overreaches its authority without putting the country through an impeachment process.
    this, he was elected by the liberal MSM. not the people. IMO he is a dictator and an illegal alien.
    trust but verify
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  9. #2338
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    Quote Originally Posted by mejohnm View Post
    I try to pay close attention to the bills being made up in Congress, could you link me to the bills that the Republicans were trying tobring as a compromise?

    Now you all claim Obama has changed the law, from the first link here is a passage which does not say he changed the law, just how it is executed which is his job. In fact it is the Republicans in Congress that are trying to be the executive branch by delaying this law that was passed by the Legislature branch.

    Mr. Obama has also acted on his own, declaring five separate delays this year. Most recently he announced one-year delays on checking the applicants for exchanges to see if they should have employer-based coverage.

    Now to say he has given exemptions to his buddies, or toCongress, etc. There have been so many reports that these exemptions are nottrue. In fact, a discussion show here in Germany brought this up and this wasbrought up. Where ever this was brought up, it just is not fact. Big business doget an extra year to implement.

    Now why cannot the Republicans just let this go. If itindeed turns out to be bad, then it can be reversed. And if they really did tryto make another bill for healthcare or to change this without getting rid ofthe good parts, like coverage for people with pre-conditions under the sameprice, then I guess the rest of the world also missed it because no one seemsto have heard it.

    Around the world, Americans, or in this case, the republicans are being made out to be heartless people. I was republican when Imoved to Germany. I was very pro-Bush. After some years here and seeing how a good system can work, it woke me up and I could see how bad things really are in the USA. Love the USA, love the Chiefs, but I do not see USA staying in one piece if this keeps up. That is with either party being President or not. The President cannot lead a room full of people that do not want to be lead.
    Here's a google search regarding the House bills:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=Hous...ient=firefox-a

    I don't know where you're getting your news but it would help if you provided links that gave a frame of reference. I have been following this closely almost everyday and from what I understand is first the House GOP Offered to fund the entire government except for Obamacare, then they offered to only delay the individual mandate and repeal the medical device tax (a bipartisan issue), then, if I'm not mistaken, it was to just delay the individual mandate like Obama did with big business in order to make it fair. I have found an article of the Fox News website that confirms the claims of exemptions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Article
    Now what? - The shutdown clock hit zero as Senate Democrats were flatly refusing anything other than continuing current government funding. Democrats even voted (much to the delight of Republican Senate challengers) not to delay the law’s mandatory insurance requirement for individuals to match a delay granted to big businesses by the White House. Senate Democrats also voted down a House-passed proposal that would have ended an ObamaCare exemption for lawmakers and their staffs. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid vowed no negotiations with Republicans. But can that last? Not likely
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...macare-launch/

    Here's more:

    Quote Originally Posted by Article
    When ObamaCare passed in 2010, Sen. Chuck Grassley won approval for an amendment that would require members of Congress and congressional staff to enroll for health insurance through the ObamaCare exchanges. Because of this provision, the federal government would no longer by able to pay the 70+% of premiums it covered for members' and staff's health insurance. The Obama Administration issued a waiver to this rule early this year.
    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...n-for-Congress

    Here's one about delays and exemptions:

    http://freebeacon.com/the-obamacare-waivers-explained/

    Obama has changed the law pure and simple. The House GOP is doing what the majority of the American people are asking them to because this law was forced upon us. It was shoved through both houses while under Democratic control and signed by Obama ahead of the 2010 elections because he knew he didn't have a prayer after the elections. This law is extremely unpopular but it is what the Democrats wanted.



    Now it is true that Americans did not want a shutdown either but it has been the House GOP that has continually tried to negotiate compromise and Obama and the Democrats would have none of it. The House GOP has been listening to their constituency and acting accordingly which is THEIR job as legislators, not only to introduce but to amend law which is why they can't just roll over and let this go as you put it. The price of these exchanges are outrageous and provides zero incentive for those 27-30 years old to enroll in this program which is the demographic needed to make this law "work". Most young people will simply pay the $95.00 fine when needed.

    I would encourage you not to just get your news about what is going on in America from a German based news source.

    One more link: http://www.house.gov/
    Last edited by Chiefster; 10-03-2013 at 11:40 AM.


  10. #2339
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    Quote Originally Posted by mejohnm View Post
    I try to pay close attention to the bills being made up in Congress, could you link me to the bills that the Republicans were trying to bring as a compromise?


    I wouldn't say "compromise." "Alternative" would be more accurate. Republicans have introduced many healthcare reform Bills going all the way back to 2003, long before Democrats pushed through the ACA without a single Republican vote in the Senate. One of the biggest would be the Patients' Choice Act S. 1099. Then there are ...

    The American Healthcare Reform Act, H. R. 3121 (full text) September 18, 2013
    House Resolution 9. January 19, 2011
    The Empowering Patients First Act, H. R. 3400 (full text), July 30, 2009
    John McCain's Health Tax Credit, July, 2008

    There are many others, as well, but I'm not going to take the time to find and list them all. You can do that yourself if you like. All of these were found quite easily with a quick Google search for "Republican Alternatives to the ACA." They didn't tell you about any of those in the German press, did they? I'm not surprised. The American press has given scant coverage to them as well.

    Aside from the myriad of National proposals to reform health care, many States have introduced their own reforms, like Massachusetts did with "RomneyCare." Just one example would be the reforms introduced in South Carolina. Many feel that the one-size-fits-all nationwide approach is not the best solution. What works for Massachusetts or New York may not work for Montana or North Dakota.

    Quote Originally Posted by mejohnm View Post
    Now you all claim Obama has changed the law, from the first link here is a passage which does not say he changed the law, just how it is executed which is his job. In fact it is the Republicans in Congress that are trying to be the executive branch by delaying this law that was passed by the Legislature branch.

    ["]Mr. Obama has also acted on his own, declaring five separate delays this year. Most recently he announced one-year delays on checking the applicants for exchanges to see if they should have employer-based coverage.["]
    You are referring, of course to the Constitutional authority given to the President to enforce existing federal laws. The Constitution does give the President wide latitude in deciding how he will allocate resources to enforce laws. He has in the past abused this authority by refusing to enforce immigration laws requiring the deportation of illegal aliens, for example. What the Constitution does not give the President the authority to do is to ignore existing laws or, worse yet, unilaterally change those laws by executive order. Obama has an obligation to enforce the laws. He thinks he has the option of enforcing, not enforcing or changing the laws. He does not.

    Congress, on the other hand, does have the authority to write, introduce or change existing laws. They are legislators. That is exactly what legislators are elected to do---legislate.

    Quote Originally Posted by mejohnm View Post
    Now to say he has given exemptions to his buddies, or to Congress, etc. There have been so many reports that these exemptions are not true. In fact, a discussion show here in Germany brought this up and this was brought up. Where ever this was brought up, it just is not fact. Big business[es] do get an extra year to implement.
    Restaurants in Nancy Pelosi's (D-Calif.) district have exemptions. As Americans for Prosperity notes, “When ObamaCare was in its infancy, the Obama administration began handing out waivers to employers for various other provisions of the law. In early 2011, the administration issued waiver after waiver to politically connected businesses [such as] restaurants and hip nightclubs in former-Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s district.”
    ...
    Samaritan Health-Care Ministry has an exemption. They “led a successful fight to get language inserted into the law that specifically exempts health care sharing ministries from the individual mandate, which would have required that members buy a traditional health insurance policy or pay significant penalties. (source)
    In addition he has delayed the employer mandate until after the midterm elections, (so Democrats aren't hurt by the legislation) removed the requirement for businesses to report employee insurance status to the IRS, delayed the cap on out of pocket expenses for individuals (to help insurance companies line their pockets), and delayed the requirement for individuals to prove that they qualify for federal aid for insurance (to get as many people as possible into the state exchanges). He does not have the authority to do any of this. But he refuses to give individuals the same one year delay to get insurance so the exchanges can get more organized and they can get better educated on what their options are. I am legally required to get insurance by the end of the year but I can't sign up (or even find out what options are available) on the website because it keeps crashing, or by phone, because they don't have the staff to take the calls!

    Quote Originally Posted by mejohnm View Post
    Now why cannot the Republicans just let this go[?]


    Because they promised the people that elected them that they would do everything in their power to fix it. I know most politicians don't keep their promises, but at least these guys (and gals) are trying to.

    Because they feel a moral obligation to stop a law that is forcing business to lay employees off or cut their hours in order to stay in business.

    Because the law is already causing premiums to skyrocket.

    Because the requirement for insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions (as it is currently written) will bankrupt them and put them out of business. Imagine if you didn't have to buy auto insurance until after you had an accident and they still had to pay to fix your car. How long would they stay in business?

    Because people who are happy with their existing coverage and want to keep it, can't, because their employers are either switching to cheaper plans or raising the premiums so high that they can no longer afford them.

    Because the individual mandate requiring people to buy a product (healthcare insurance) against their will is a violation of their basic human right to engage, or not engage in commerce and spend their own money as they see fit.

    Quote Originally Posted by mejohnm View Post
    If it indeed turns out to be bad, then it can be reversed.
    By then it will be too late. The damage to the economy will already have been massive. The inevitable delays and rationing of health care may cause people to die waiting for treatment. In Canada, people who have been in car accidents wait an average of 12 hours in emergency rooms for treatment. We don't want that here.

    And besides, no "entitlement" once fully implemented has ever been rescinded or rolled back. Our nation is already over $17 trillion in debt and can't afford the additional cost. But once Obamacare starts their will be no way to stop it.

    Quote Originally Posted by mejohnm View Post
    And if they really did try to make another bill for healthcare or to change this without getting rid of the good parts, like coverage for people with pre-conditions under the same price, then I guess the rest of the world also missed it because no one seems to have heard it.
    Maybe you can share this post with them and have them click on some of the links above.

    Quote Originally Posted by mejohnm View Post
    Around the world, Americans, or in this case, the republicans are being made out to be heartless people. I was republican when Imoved to Germany. I was very pro-Bush. After some years here and seeing how a good system can work, it woke me up and I could see how bad things really are in the USA.


    We are not Germany and don't want to be, as great a country as it is. We have different needs, different freedoms, a different history and different laws. What works there (however well it works) will not necessarily work here.

    Quote Originally Posted by mejohnm View Post
    The President cannot lead a room full of people that do not want to be lead.
    What lead? The President has not led since he took office. All he has done is continue to campaign and cast blame. How can he lead when he refuses to negotiate or even talk to Republicans about making compromises that every one would be happy with? House Republicans are trying to pass continuing resolutions that will keep open at least the most essential parts of government until some kind of deal can be reached and he has promised to veto every one of them. It's "his way or the highway" as far as he is concerned. He wants to keep the Government shut down as long as possible to do as much damage as possible to the Republican party.

    But it's not going to work. It will backfire on him eventually.
    ***Official Chiefs Crowd Game Thread Starter***

    Originally Posted by Name Withheld
    I don't think anything that's what wrong is nearly Smiths Falls we have no offense of line I think the coaches are free to call certain place I think he would absolutely do better with a different office of coordinator

  11. #2340
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    I guess only time will tell what will happen. In the meantime, I will read those bills.
    Last edited by mejohnm; 10-03-2013 at 01:34 PM.

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