The ONLY political and religious thread allowed on Chiefscrowd

**hermhater** · 01-09-2008, 12:29 AM

Clinton, McCain emerge as comeback winners in New Hampshire primary

WASHINGTON - Democrat Hillary Clinton pulled off an unexpected narrow victory in New Hampshire on Tuesday, dramatically rescuing her bid for the White House in a tense battle with Barack Obama.
Clinton, who's fighting to become the first woman in the Oval Office, mounted a surprisingly strong showing after bracing for a second defeat following her devastating third-place showing in Iowa.

Democratic presidential hopeful Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y. greets a familiar face. THE ASSOCIATED PRESS/Elise Amendola

Republican John McCain also nabbed a major comeback victory, putting him solidly back in his party's nomination race.
While Obama, vying to make history as the first black U.S. president, scored big among independents and voters between 18 and 24, Clinton attracted lower-income voters and seniors and did best among voters citing the economy as their top concern.
But a big factor for Clinton was women voters, who had gone over to Obama in large numbers in Iowa. Nearly half in New Hampshire were once again supporting her, while Obama got only a third.

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/080108/w0108115A.html

Crap.

**rbedgood** · 02-10-2008, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by hermhater

That pretty much summed up my argument against hand guns, as the criminals don't care, they will carry a gun anywhere they want, whereas the law abiding citizens would follow the law and not have had firearms on their person at the school.

I'm not sure what you're saying. You agree the criminals don't care. So we both agree, whether their is a law or not, criminals will carry guns wherever they can.

However the laws as written prevent law abiding citizens from protecting themselves in many, many places.

So why would you say we shouldn't allow a law-abiding citizen access to a handgun?

Are you under the illusion we can actually get rid of all the handguns?? If so, all you're doing is getting rid of the guns from "Joe Good-guy"

**Canada** · 02-10-2008, 07:48 PM

The US is #24 in highest murder rates in the world. This is the safety that carrying guns provides??

**rbedgood** · 02-10-2008, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by Canada

The US is #24 in highest murder rates in the world. This is the safety that carrying guns provides??

If we are talking about gun control we should stick to gun crime. Of the murders that were committed in the US only half were committed with a handgun (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ore/facts.html)

Additionally the handgun laws in the US vary state-to-state. There is little to no correlation between gun-control and murder rates. Vermont for example has some of the loosest gun laws in the nation, yet also has one of the lowest murder rates. California has the strictest gun-control laws and is in the top 10 for murders.

In fact of the 10 states with the best (lowest) murder rates, only Hawaii has what would be considered tough gun control laws. All of the others are pretty "gun-friendly" states.

I am not saying the carrying a gun prevents murder. I am stating the fallacy of gun control stops it. The more realistic indicator of murder rates is population & economy.

**hermhater** · 02-10-2008, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by rbedgood

I'm not sure what you're saying. You agree the criminals don't care. So we both agree, whether their is a law or not, criminals will carry guns wherever they can.

However the laws as written prevent law abiding citizens from protecting themselves in many, many places.

So why would you say we shouldn't allow a law-abiding citizen access to a handgun?

Are you under the illusion we can actually get rid of all the handguns?? If so, all you're doing is getting rid of the guns from "Joe Good-guy"

I'm not saying I have all the answers, just that I'm pretty sure more guns is not it.

**rbedgood** · 02-10-2008, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by hermhater

I'm not saying I have all the answers, just that I'm pretty sure more guns is not it.

I'm not saying more guns is the answer. Don't misunderstand my position. I'm simply saying don't go through trying to collect the guns from law-abiding citizens until you're sure you've taken them from the crooks first...

**tammietailgator** · 02-10-2008, 08:12 PM

Very true, but people need to remember if they own a gun for protection... make sure you can and will use it if it comes down to it, make sure that they are secure so the criminals cannot steal them, make sure your kids can't get them.....

**chief31** · 02-10-2008, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by hermhater

I got no problem with the R in N.R.A!

It is the concealed weapons that people can sneak into a bank, or university and lay waste to innocent lives!

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. --- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

**spiman** · 02-10-2008, 08:20 PM

The day Big brother tries to take my guns-we are all in a sad STATE of affairs. But after seeing the snipers/mercs. at the gun range I work at last week, I am going to leave shooting the bad guys up to them! (400 yrds hitting sunglasses/ no problem)