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Thread: Wesley

  1. #1
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    Default Wesley



    "Everybody underestimates the kick in the groin." - Bas Rutten

  2. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermhater View Post
    Nope!

    We are paying him good money to keep the benches nice and smooth!


    Wishful thinking; having not actually taken the time to read the article. :p

  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermhater View Post
    It's not really worth arguing about the quality of the players we let go vs the quality of their replacements because neither you or I (yes even you) are NFL scouts.

    Our leadership on the other hand is what is in question.

    I know you still think Herm is the second coming, but you don't see my point at all?
    Honest to god, no. I don't see one person that we've let go that i'm sitting here thinking..."gee, wish we still had that guy." None of those 3 players are difference makers. I never claimed to be a scout. Most of my thinking is based off numbers and none of those guys blew me away when they were here while Herm was the coach and none of them have blown me away since they left.

    But with all the players that Herm has cut, those were the only 3 you could come up with. 2 were special teams players (one of which only played 7 games), and the last is debatable at the very best.

    Herm's approach to this rebuilding is exactly correct.

    I've always questioned Carl's leadership.

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by texaschief View Post
    Honest to god, no. I don't see one person that we've let go that i'm sitting here thinking..."gee, wish we still had that guy." None of those 3 players are difference makers. I never claimed to be a scout. Most of my thinking is based off numbers and none of those guys blew me away when they were here while Herm was the coach and none of them have blown me away since they left.

    But with all the players that Herm has cut, those were the only 3 you could come up with. 2 were special teams players (one of which only played 7 games), and the last is debatable at the very best.

    Herm's approach to this rebuilding is exactly correct.

    I've always questioned Carl's leadership.
    I don't necessarily like Herm but I can't think of anybody we've cut that I'd want back. Maybe Sammie Knight but he didn't play well here. He looked good when Del Rio played him though. Where did he sign again?


    "Everybody underestimates the kick in the groin." - Bas Rutten

  5. #34
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    Oh yeah, I forgot about Dunn and Wilkerson. I think we should've kept them.


    "Everybody underestimates the kick in the groin." - Bas Rutten

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by royalswin100games View Post
    Oh yeah, I forgot about Dunn and Wilkerson. I think we should've kept them.
    I don't think Dunn will ever stay healthy for an entire season again. I wouldn't be shocked to see him retire. I wouldn't mind keeping Wilkerson, but if his leaving opens playing time for the new guys, i'm ok with that.

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by texaschief View Post
    Honest to god, no. I don't see one person that we've let go that i'm sitting here thinking..."gee, wish we still had that guy." None of those 3 players are difference makers. I never claimed to be a scout. Most of my thinking is based off numbers and none of those guys blew me away when they were here while Herm was the coach and none of them have blown me away since they left.

    But with all the players that Herm has cut, those were the only 3 you could come up with. 2 were special teams players (one of which only played 7 games), and the last is debatable at the very best.

    Herm's approach to this rebuilding is exactly correct.

    I've always questioned Carl's leadership.
    My biggest gripe is that we let players go from positions that we were obviously lacking in talent, for less talented players.

    I don't think Hall, Tynes, and Mitchell would have made the season MUCH better, but it would have been better.
    http://arrowheadjunkies.com/pictures/PhotoShop/sig_pics/NFL_Players/kansas_city_chiefs/tyson.jackson/062009/tyson.jackson.500.png

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by texaschief View Post
    I think his cap number is bigger if we let him go than if we keep him. He's not good enough for someone to want to trade for him and his salary and he's too expensive to cut loose. He might as well work hard this offseason and try to take back his starting spot.
    Well, noone believes that the table is being "leaned" toward the young players? I think we all know that it is, but may differ on how much it is being "leaned". I'd say very heavily.

    There has been a mass exodus of the players that were not drafted by Herm, coincidentally.

    Quote Originally Posted by texaschief View Post
    Well, Carl gave him the contract, but what is Herm supposed to do? Start him because we're paying him a lot of money? If he can't stave off the rookies, why should he start?
    He has always plyed well. The fact that Herm wants to force his guys into place shouldn't be used as ammo against Wesleys playing ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by texaschief View Post
    ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!

    You have got to be joking. Hall did nothing his last 2 years here and everyone was happy to get the draft pick when we traded him. Just because his replacement was awful as well doesn't mean Hall wasn't washed up as a KR.

    If Kawika Mitchell was so great, the Giants wouldn't have let him go either.

    .....and Lawrence Tynes? omg. same applies here as the Hall statement. Tynes is NOT a good kicker. How do you miss a chip shot from the 9 yd line in a dome? How do you miss consecutive field goals this year just to get bailed out by your team to allow you a second chance to win a game in OT and still be considered a "good kicker." He should've been let go....as he should've been this year by the Giants.....but make no mistake, that was Carl's call....not Herms.
    Hey. If those guys were so horrible, then how is it possible that their replacements have been amazingly worse than they were? (Exception for Harris.)

    That would mean that we have to have brought in the absolute least talented pieces of garbage to have ever stepped onto the field.

    But I suppose that Herm won't get any of the credit for those mistakes. It seems that only the successful moves are credited to Herm.

    Quote Originally Posted by texaschief View Post
    Kawika Mitchell- 76 tkls 3.5 sck 2FF 1INT
    Napoleon Harris- 116 tkls 1.5 sck 1FF 1INT

    Does Mitchell's 1 more Forced Fumble and 2 more sacks make up for 40 less tackles? Get real.

    Let's look at Hall and Drummond while we're at it.

    Hall- 7 games- 729 yds 18/20+ yds returns

    KR long 84, PR long 85, PR avg 15.1, KR avg. 25.1, Return TDs - 1, 40+ returns - 2.

    Drummond- 12 games- 785 yds 22/20+ yds returns.

    KR long 39, PR long 22, PR avg. 6.9, KR avg. 21.2, Return TDs-0, 40+ returns - 0.

    Is this "cherry pickin'"?



    I'd much rather have a player who's going to be there for 5 more games than someone who's only going to give me 7 games who i gave up a 4th round pick for.

    Come on. You want a player who is unable to get anything going at all, over a guy who makes plays? Because (purely in hind-sight) a guy got injured?

    Well, considering the amazingly high number of games that Hall had missed in his career.... 1.... up to the '07 season, I guess you're right.

    But, what about the fact that Drummond lost the return job due to inneffectivity? Does that not counter the games missed by injury?

    and you can argue that Tynes is a good kicker until you're blue in the face, but that's just plain dumb. Medlock wasn't better, but like i said, that wasn't Herm's decision.
    Well DUHH. That was a bad decision. So that had nothing to do with Herm. How does that work again? Herm drafted any player that does well, while all the failures were someone elses decision?

    I just want to make sure I have the rules straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by texaschief View Post
    Honest to god, no. I don't see one person that we've let go that i'm sitting here thinking..."gee, wish we still had that guy." None of those 3 players are difference makers. I never claimed to be a scout. Most of my thinking is based off numbers and none of those guys blew me away when they were here while Herm was the coach and none of them have blown me away since they left.

    But with all the players that Herm has cut, those were the only 3 you could come up with. 2 were special teams players (one of which only played 7 games), and the last is debatable at the very best.

    Herm's approach to this rebuilding is exactly correct.

    I've always questioned Carl's leadership.
    The fact is that even if you want to blind yourself to the positives about some of the players that we let go, you can't deny the failure to replace them. (Mitchell/Harris exception)

  9. #38
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    Oh Snap!

    http://arrowheadjunkies.com/pictures/PhotoShop/sig_pics/NFL_Players/kansas_city_chiefs/tyson.jackson/062009/tyson.jackson.500.png

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by texaschief View Post
    I don't think Dunn will ever stay healthy for an entire season again. I wouldn't be shocked to see him retire. I wouldn't mind keeping Wilkerson, but if his leaving opens playing time for the new guys, i'm ok with that.
    Agreed!

  11. #40
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    There has been a mass exodus of the players that were not drafted by Herm, coincidentally.
    Why wouldn't there be? Most of the players we've let go were inneffective and old. Again, who have we cut that you wish were still here? Dante Hall? Really?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by texaschief
    Well, Carl gave him the contract, but what is Herm supposed to do? Start him because we're paying him a lot of money? If he can't stave off the rookies, why should he start?
    He has always plyed well. The fact that Herm wants to force his guys into place shouldn't be used as ammo against Wesleys playing ability.

    How bout stats? Can stats be used as ammo?
    Wesley 2006 (last year as a starter)
    G 14 GS 14 TKLS 67 SOLO SCK 0 62 PD 4 INT 3
    Pollard (Wesley's replacement)
    G 16 GS 15 TKLS 90 SOLO 74 SCK 1 PD 7 INT 2
    hmm, who would YOU start?
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by texaschief
    ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!

    You have got to be joking. Hall did nothing his last 2 years here and everyone was happy to get the draft pick when we traded him. Just because his replacement was awful as well doesn't mean Hall wasn't washed up as a KR.

    If Kawika Mitchell was so great, the Giants wouldn't have let him go either.

    .....and Lawrence Tynes? omg. same applies here as the Hall statement. Tynes is NOT a good kicker. How do you miss a chip shot from the 9 yd line in a dome? How do you miss consecutive field goals this year just to get bailed out by your team to allow you a second chance to win a game in OT and still be considered a "good kicker." He should've been let go....as he should've been this year by the Giants.....but make no mistake, that was Carl's call....not Herms.
    Hey.
    If those guys were so horrible, then how is it possible that their replacements have been amazingly worse than they were? (Exception for Harris.)

    That would mean that we have to have brought in the absolute least talented pieces of garbage to have ever stepped onto the field.

    But I suppose that Herm won't get any of the credit for those mistakes. It seems that only the successful moves are credited to Herm.


    I wouldn't have any problem laying blame at Herm's feet if it were warranted.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by texaschief
    Kawika Mitchell- 76 tkls 3.5 sck 2FF 1INT
    Napoleon Harris- 116 tkls 1.5 sck 1FF 1INT

    Does Mitchell's 1 more Forced Fumble and 2 more sacks make up for 40 less tackles? Get real.

    Let's look at Hall and Drummond while we're at it.

    Hall- 7 games- 729 yds 18/20+ yds returns

    KR long 84, PR long 85, PR avg 15.1, KR avg. 25.1, Return TDs - 1, 40+ returns - 2.

    Drummond- 12 games- 785 yds 22/20+ yds returns.

    KR long 39, PR long 22, PR avg. 6.9, KR avg. 21.2, Return TDs-0, 40+ returns - 0.

    Is this "cherry pickin'"?



    I'd much rather have a player who's going to be there for 5 more games than someone who's only going to give me 7 games who i gave up a 4th round pick for.

    Come on. You want a player who is unable to get anything going at all, over a guy who makes plays? Because (purely in hind-sight) a guy got injured?

    Well, considering the amazingly high number of games that Hall had missed in his career.... 1.... up to the '07 season, I guess you're right.

    But, what about the fact that Drummond lost the return job due to inneffectivity? Does that not counter the games missed by injury?

    Fine, you want to go into the past and look at numbers? Let's do that. Remember, we traded Hall for a 4th rd pick. Let's look at their 2006 seasons.
    Hall-
    G 15 RET 53 YDS 1207 AVG 22.8 LNG 60 20+ 36 40+3
    Drummond-
    G 14 RET 62 YDS 1349 AVG 21.8 LNG 65 20+ 33 40+3

    So, Hall was averaging 2 yds more than Drummond was in 2006. Are those 2 yds worth more than the ability to draft Kolby Smith?


    I'll be back a little later to help you out on the rest

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