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Thread: TRADE! TRADE! TRADE! Building for the Future

  1. #1
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    Default TRADE! TRADE! TRADE! Building for the Future


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    It has been thirteen long seasons since the Kansas City Chiefs and fans have witnessed a playoff win.

    Also, in the the past twenty NFL drafts, the Chiefs average selection in the first round has been an "average middle of the road" pick #15. Three of those twenty drafts were without a first round selection.

    Respectable and average are getting rather old.

    It just might be time to try a different appoach towards the draft. Submitted for your thinking is a somewhat "out of the box" attempt to change the face of this organization:

    #1 TRADE: RB Larry Johnson to the Buffalo Bills for the following picks:
    2/43, 3/74, 3/92 and a 2008 3rd round pick.

    #2 TRADE: Pick #1/23 to San Francisco for the following picks:
    3/76, 4/104, 4/110, 4/124 and a 2008 2nd round pick.

    #3 TRADE: Pick #2/43 (Buffalo) to Washington for the following pick:
    2008 1st round pick.

    #4 TRADE: Pick #2/54 to Houston for the following pick:
    2008 1st round pick.

    2007 NFL DRAFT SELECTIONS/KANSAS CITY

    3/74
    3/76
    3/84
    3/92
    4/104
    4/110
    4/124
    5/160
    6/
    7/

    2008 NFL DRAFT SELECTIONS/KANSAS CITY

    1st (Washington)
    1st (Houston)
    1st (K.C.)

    2nd (K.C)
    2nd (San Francisco)

    3rd (Buffalo)
    3rd (K.C.)
    Last edited by Cisco Kid; 04-21-2007 at 05:39 AM.

  2. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by texaschief View Post
    at some point you have to realize that offensive lineman aren't the super stars the WRs, RBs, QB's are.You can vote on position players by numbers (stats). How do you base a vote on an offensive lineman? there are no numbers to show... so obviously, you vote for players who's name you recognize. While Shields was a great player, you can't tell me he earned EVERY SINGLE pro bowl nomination. Especially when fans are voting these players in. K.C. doesn't play in enough nationally televised games for casual fans to realize what an outstanding player Shields was. On the ballot, they see a 7,8,10,12 time pro bowler, obviously you're gonna vote for him... "he was on the ballot for a reason right?"

    Show me a position player who made 12 straight Pro Bowls. It doesn't happen. Mainly because you see thier numbers and realize he had a down year, so you don't vote him in.

    I have a reaction; ummmmm WHAT! j/k


    Seriously, I really don't see how Shields is overrated here. The "stats" you look at for an offensive lineman are directly linked to how well those "super star players" perform. Will not only opened up holes in the running game, which is just one reason why the Chiefs are so prolific there, but he also gave up very few sacks in the passing game as well. Now, if the RB has nowhere to run the offensive lineman has not done his job. If the QB spends the majority of the season on his back looking up at the sky then he obviously either didn't get the pass off to the super star receiver, didn't throw a pass that was catch-able or was picked off.
    Call me a homer, but I really don't see how Shields didn't earn his Pro Bowl appearances.


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    Quote Originally Posted by texaschief View Post
    at some point you have to realize that offensive lineman aren't the super stars the WRs, RBs, QB's are.You can vote on position players by numbers (stats). How do you base a vote on an offensive lineman? there are no numbers to show... so obviously, you vote for players who's name you recognize. While Shields was a great player, you can't tell me he earned EVERY SINGLE pro bowl nomination. Especially when fans are voting these players in. K.C. doesn't play in enough nationally televised games for casual fans to realize what an outstanding player Shields was. On the ballot, they see a 7,8,10,12 time pro bowler, obviously you're gonna vote for him... "he was on the ballot for a reason right?"

    Show me a position player who made 12 straight Pro Bowls. It doesn't happen. Mainly because you see thier numbers and realize he had a down year, so you don't vote him in.
    O-linemen make great "superstars" look bad. They make average "skill position" players look like superstars.

    While I agree, that voters have no stats to evaluate a linemans performance, I requite, by saying that fans have no stats with which to evaluate O-linemen. That is why most fans believe that "skill position" players are "superstars", while linemen are extras.

    How about Rhonda Moss? All the talent, in the world,( Hell, he made Duante Culpepper look good.) Yet, he has been unable to do anything for the Faiders.

    How about Mike Anderson? Who?!?! Everyone knew him, for a season. or two, in Denver. But, put him behind another O-line........ Who is he now?

    There are hundreds of players who appeared to play above, or below, their ability, due to the successes, or failures, of the offensive lines, that they played behind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texaschief View Post
    at some point you have to realize that offensive lineman aren't the super stars the WRs, RBs, QB's are.You can vote on position players by numbers (stats). How do you base a vote on an offensive lineman? there are no numbers to show... so obviously, you vote for players who's name you recognize. While Shields was a great player, you can't tell me he earned EVERY SINGLE pro bowl nomination. Especially when fans are voting these players in. K.C. doesn't play in enough nationally televised games for casual fans to realize what an outstanding player Shields was. On the ballot, they see a 7,8,10,12 time pro bowler, obviously you're gonna vote for him... "he was on the ballot for a reason right?"

    Show me a position player who made 12 straight Pro Bowls. It doesn't happen. Mainly because you see thier numbers and realize he had a down year, so you don't vote him in.

    In his career, Will Shields made 223 consecutive starts. This is the third longest, in NFL history. Not to mention, he did it, playing a position that includes hitting and being hit, on nearly every play. (also, twice a year, against the cheap-shot Broncos.)

    If you choose to percieve that he struggled last season, let me submit these facts, in his defense.

    Will spent alot of his, on the field, time, trying to lean his coverage to the outside, in an attempt to assist some horrible play, from his right tackle. ( whoever that was, from game to game.) Thus, causing lapses in the overall pass blocking, on that side of the line.

    He played, injured, through some portion of the season. It is difficult to assess the length of his injury, because, only Will knows when his health was an issue.

    Larry Johnson rushed for 1800 yards. His favorite running plays, were those that went to the middle, where Will Shields is the dominant force. I believe that Larry Johnson is a talented runner, but do not believe that he is the second best runner, in the NFL. Nor, even in the top ten. The vast majority of his rushing yards, are those, created by the offensive line. (along with tight-ends and fullback.)

    The fact is, that the only way to,properly, evaluate Will Shields' '06 season, is by watching his play, directly. Myself, I am a bit of an O-line enthusiast. I rewind plays, during the game, to watch several different linemen and see what they have done, on that play. More often, than not, I will do this after the game. While Will has lost a step, over the years, he makes up for that, with his knowledge of the game. His experience, gives him an edge, over the rest of the league.

    Several times, last season, he had to make a choice, between allowing his man to beat him inside, to help with a defender, who was beating the OT, to the inside, or finish his block, himself and allow the OT to be beaten. This is a difficult decision to make. If you "cover your own ***" then you quarterback gets hit, sacked, maybe fumbles, maybe gets hurt, or throws an interception. Of course, if you allow your man to get away, the same results are at stake.

    Will worked hard, last season, to balance these decisions. Often, he was able to slide his defender inside, to his center, for help, allowing him to move outside and aid his right tackle. Other times, you could see him waiting for the right time, to let his man free. Long enough to give his quarterback another second, in the pocket, yet soon enough to slow a blitzer, or defensive end, that has beaten the right tackle.

    The offensive line is a team, within a team. One amazing O-lineman doesn't fair well, when the rest of that unit has a sub-par talent level. One poor lineman, can make an entire unit look bad. One has to understand the asignments of each individual lineman, to assess the performance of the indiviuals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chiefster View Post
    Well not to disagree, and trust me I hope you're right, but 12 straight Pro Bowls out of a fourteen year career one would think has to account for something.

    Nite Crowd!
    His 12 Pro Bowls definitely account for something...HOF, but 14 years in the trenches is a long time and I agree that he may be losing a little bit (I do believe he is still one of the best in the league) but age takes its toll on even the great ones.

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    Its usually not casual fans voting these guys in to the Pro Bowl...it is guys who know about football and watch football. My wife is a casual fan and has never voted for a Pro Bowl (except when I tell her to put some in and just vote for Chiefs players) The voters who spend the time to vote do it because the know and understand football and recognize what an outstanding player Shields is. I can honestly say that I believe that he earned EVERY SINGLE pro bowl that he was in. Positional players who make a lot of Pro Bowls do so because of guys like Shields...and u can't tell me that people don't vote for Manning and Brady every year because they see them on TV and all that anyone talks aobut on TV. I don't need to see the numbers to know that he is among the best at his position and that is what the Pro Bowl is for. I just wish he could keep it up until he was 58!

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    All excellent points; I'd say this quoting you guys but I'll just preserve the screen real estate by saying: "Good job"! :)


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    Yeah, I do have a tendancy to eat up some space.

  9. #18
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    i cannot see the queen trading the best player he has ever drafted.
    i can remember what a chief super bowl team looks like! ......

  10. #19
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    a 6-10 year or worse will be hard to stomach. i dont think clark will let the queen make trades that this would happen. even if it does mean a better team 2 or 3 years down the road. season tickets are getting harder to sell now and there was at least 3 games last year that they gave big discounts to groups,ie,teachers,cops,ect. to keep from not selling out. kc wants winners now, mainly because they(we) have been told for the last 19 years we are the best. its like a nagging wife, at first you listen then you ignore it,blah,blah blah.
    Last edited by wolfpack; 04-22-2007 at 06:03 PM.
    i can remember what a chief super bowl team looks like! ......

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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfpack View Post
    i cannot see the queen trading the best player he has ever drafted.
    While I agree, that LJ isn't going anywhere, didn't CP draft Will Shields?

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