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Thread: How to fix the Chiefs

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    The Chiefs are one of more interesting teams in the league, and could be one of the easiest to rebuild. In my opinion, the following owould be the best way:

    1. Be very, very active in free agency and fix your lines.

    Sign free agents O-linemen Jordan Gross (LT) and Marc Colombo (RT) to long term deals. Both are under 30. Overpay both of them if you have to and you will). Make gross the highest paid o-lineman in the league if you have to (and you'll have to) - just get them signed. This will also allow you to move Albert back to his natural position at RG and shoudl give the Chiefs an above average o-line.

    Then sign Julius Pepper, Terrell Suggs, and Albert Haynesworth to long term deals for your d-line. All are under 30. Overpay them if you have to. Keep Dorsey at DT. The Chiefs will have the cap room to do this, even if you ignore step 2.

    2. Clear out the dead weight.

    Cut Brodie Croyle, Tamba Hali, MacIntosh, Donnie Edwards, all WRs not named Bowe, Pollard, Tank, Turk, Surtain, and every other project player that hasn't worked out. Try to trade those tradable and cut the rest.

    3. Fix the QB position

    Sign JP Losman to a two-year deal for near the minimum. Draft Stafford out of Georgia with the overall number 1 pick (which KC probably will have). Sit Stafford for a year at least and don't get him killed.

    4. Convince Gonzalez and Waters not to retire.

    This will be difficult, but a new regime committed to winning might be able to do it.

    5. Don't cut or trade LJ

    It makes no sense to cut him and eat his cap hit. Try to get 2-3 good years out of him. Behind a revamped line and with a good QB, he may become rejuvinated.

    6. Draft well

    Everyone needs to stop pretending Herm Edwards has drafted well. He hasn't, and most of his draft picks will be out of the league when their rookie contracts are up.

    Even if the free agency plan above goes to plan, the Chiefs are still deficient at most positions. Stafford in the 1st round, and some mixture of WR, OL, LB, and CB over the rest. Do NOT draft any more DTs, RBs, TEs, or Ss.

    7. Clean out the coaches and management personnel

    Even if they weren't terrible at their jobs (and they are), you need to do this to rebuild faith in the franchise.

    Cowher probably won't coach here (quit dreaming, people). Get Lane Kiffin (at least he'll care about Raiders games). Let him rebuild his staff. Throw a dumptruck of money at Scott Pioli to GM here.

    What do you think?

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    Lamerson,your post was good but there is no way I'd agree with drafting another quarterback.This is like starting all over while developing a QB into the Chiefs system.I'm positive that Brodie Croyle has learned plenty from Trent Green and Damon and gone veterans such as Will Shields during his first year with us.
    He has been practicing against elite corners when Ty Law was with us.The new QB draftee will face young corners during practice and they have not been through what players such as Ty Law and Patrick Surtain been through.Colombo won't fit as a Chief but Gross will be a great fit.We basically need one major signing for an offensive lineman.Don't get rid of Tamba but get rid of Ron Edwards and fill it up with a better dominare run stuffer.Trade our 3 and 4th round pick for a dominate linebacker because we are already filled with so much youth.Secondary is fine.Definitely keep L.J. and Gonzo.
    GRRRRRRRRR

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grbac View Post
    Lamerson,your post was good but there is no way I'd agree with drafting another quarterback.This is like starting all over while developing a QB into the Chiefs system.I'm positive that Brodie Croyle has learned plenty from Trent Green and Damon and gone veterans such as Will Shields during his first year with us.
    He has been practicing against elite corners when Ty Law was with us.The new QB draftee will face young corners during practice and they have not been through what players such as Ty Law and Patrick Surtain been through.Colombo won't fit as a Chief but Gross will be a great fit.We basically need one major signing for an offensive lineman.Don't get rid of Tamba but get rid of Ron Edwards and fill it up with a better dominare run stuffer.Trade our 3 and 4th round pick for a dominate linebacker because we are already filled with so much youth.Secondary is fine.Definitely keep L.J. and Gonzo.
    I can't read you. I can't tell if you are being serious or sarcastic. I really hope you are joking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grbac View Post
    Lamerson,your post was good but there is no way I'd agree with drafting another quarterback.This is like starting all over while developing a QB into the Chiefs system.I'm positive that Brodie Croyle has learned plenty from Trent Green and Damon and gone veterans such as Will Shields during his first year with us.
    He has been practicing against elite corners when Ty Law was with us.The new QB draftee will face young corners during practice and they have not been through what players such as Ty Law and Patrick Surtain been through.Colombo won't fit as a Chief but Gross will be a great fit.We basically need one major signing for an offensive lineman.Don't get rid of Tamba but get rid of Ron Edwards and fill it up with a better dominare run stuffer.Trade our 3 and 4th round pick for a dominate linebacker because we are already filled with so much youth.Secondary is fine.Definitely keep L.J. and Gonzo.
    Well, it *would* be starting all over.

    You don't really think that Brodie Croyle will ever QB an NFL team again, do you? He's going to be out of the league come the end of this season. It doesn't matter what he learned, he doesn't have the sort of body that can hold up to the NFL game. The Chiefs will need a QB from somewhere, either FA or draft. And there aren't exactly a great group of FA QBs this year.

    Also, neither Surtain nor Ty Law were ever at an elite level while Chiefs (although Surtain has been adequate).

    What's wrong with Columbo as a RT? We need about three new linemen, as Waters will retire, McIntosh isn't an answer, Herb Taylor will be an adequate backup (at best), Adrian Jones is hopeless, and Albert needs to be put back in position at RG. Niswanger is fine at C, but that's about it.

    What dominent LB could the Chiefs trade for with a 3rd or 4th rounder? I can't think of any.

    Tamba will never be a good starting DE without a legitimate pass rusher on the other side. And he'll only be a good starter in pass situations - he's awful against the run. The Chiefs have poured many high picks into the line and it stinks - we need to sign the best FAs under 30 years old.

    We may not have choices with LJ and Gonzo. Both may retire rather than play another year with Herm. LJ is young, but has been paid an awful lot of money. He'll never get a 3rd contract. Why come back?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmlamerson View Post
    Well, it *would* be starting all over.

    You don't really think that Brodie Croyle will ever QB an NFL team again, do you? He's going to be out of the league come the end of this season. It doesn't matter what he learned, he doesn't have the sort of body that can hold up to the NFL game. The Chiefs will need a QB from somewhere, either FA or draft. And there aren't exactly a great group of FA QBs this year.

    Also, neither Surtain nor Ty Law were ever at an elite level while Chiefs (although Surtain has been adequate).

    What's wrong with Columbo as a RT? We need about three new linemen, as Waters will retire, McIntosh isn't an answer, Herb Taylor will be an adequate backup (at best), Adrian Jones is hopeless, and Albert needs to be put back in position at RG. Niswanger is fine at C, but that's about it.

    What dominent LB could the Chiefs trade for with a 3rd or 4th rounder? I can't think of any.

    Tamba will never be a good starting DE without a legitimate pass rusher on the other side. And he'll only be a good starter in pass situations - he's awful against the run. The Chiefs have poured many high picks into the line and it stinks - we need to sign the best FAs under 30 years old.

    We may not have choices with LJ and Gonzo. Both may retire rather than play another year with Herm. LJ is young, but has been paid an awful lot of money. He'll never get a 3rd contract. Why come back?



    L.J.,why come back.What?You're staring to not make sense.Just because Colombo's fits but plays well with the Cowboys doesn't mean that he fits as a Chief.Herb is better than you think and can contribute as a starter.Waters is not guaranteed to retire.I hope Prince Albert does go to right guard while Herb starts at left tackle next to B-dub.Sign a dominate right tackle next to Prince Albert.Niswanger is superb.
    GRRRRRRRRR

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grbac View Post
    Niswanger is superb.
    Do you even watch the Chiefs. Niswanger is supber in hiking the ball. That is the end of his skill set.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grbac View Post
    L.J.,why come back.What?You're staring to not make sense.Just because Colombo's fits but plays well with the Cowboys doesn't mean that he fits as a Chief.Herb is better than you think and can contribute as a starter.Waters is not guaranteed to retire.I hope Prince Albert does go to right guard while Herb starts at left tackle next to B-dub.Sign a dominate right tackle next to Prince Albert.Niswanger is superb.
    I'm saying that the chances of LJ suiting up next year as a Chief are very, very slim. I think he will either be cut, be traded, or retire. I think he would prefer any of those three options to returning to play for Herm.

    Waters WILL retire. You're crazy to think he'll come back for another year of this. Herb is only good by comparison - he's shown nothing to show that he can be a legitimate LT for 16 games. He would be a service 6th OL, but given the chance, I'd rather have Gross at LT and Colombo (why the dislike for him?) at RT, with Herb backing both up. We need to sign an additional LG after Waters retires, and move Albert to RG. Niswanger is OK at C, but he's not in the top 10 by any means.

    You can't really believe the crazy things you're saying, right? The Chiefs need a massive overhaul. Your plan of sticking with Croyle, keeping the current OL (+1), trading for LBs, and in general maintaining the status quo is pretty obviously not going to work.

    It stinks that we've wasted the past two years on a failed "rebuilding" project, but that is the way it is. You can avoid reality, or you can admit that we need to fix what's broken.

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    It's a good, but highly unrealistic plan.. we'd be lucky if one of those players wanted to come here, much less all of them.

    Carl/Herm should obviously be gone. Get a coach who doesn't insist that a pass that travels more than 5 yards is a bad one.

    The O-Line should be addressed (priority #1).

    There needs to be a QB of the future in development next season.

    LJ is overpaid and washed up, in my opinion.. and needs to be cut. Draft or sign a bruiser to complement Charles. Free a team typically known for its good character/chemistry of a bad apple.

    Sign a veteran leader on defense. Don't draft defense, our defense is already young enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmlamerson View Post
    I'm saying that the chances of LJ suiting up next year as a Chief are very, very slim. I think he will either be cut, be traded, or retire. I think he would prefer any of those three options to returning to play for Herm.

    Waters WILL retire. You're crazy to think he'll come back for another year of this. Herb is only good by comparison - he's shown nothing to show that he can be a legitimate LT for 16 games. He would be a service 6th OL, but given the chance, I'd rather have Gross at LT and Colombo (why the dislike for him?) at RT, with Herb backing both up. We need to sign an additional LG after Waters retires, and move Albert to RG. Niswanger is OK at C, but he's not in the top 10 by any means.

    You can't really believe the crazy things you're saying, right? The Chiefs need a massive overhaul. Your plan of sticking with Croyle, keeping the current OL (+1), trading for LBs, and in general maintaining the status quo is pretty obviously not going to work.

    It stinks that we've wasted the past two years on a failed "rebuilding" project, but that is the way it is. You can avoid reality, or you can admit that we need to fix what's broken.



    If Waters retire then we can go after 2 offfensive lineman.That's "if" he retires.Put it this way,if Brian Waters,Damon,Gonzo,L.J.,Patrick Surtain and your assuming departure of Tamba Hali all leave then the Chiefs are still in the starter mode of rebuilding and that's another bad but also suck upcoming season for us.You basically have all of these guys not with us next year.That's awful.
    GRRRRRRRRR

  10. #19
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    [QUOTE=jmlamerson;102566]The Chiefs are one of more interesting teams in the league, and could be one of the easiest to rebuild. In my opinion, the following owould be the best way:

    1. Be very, very active in free agency and fix your lines.

    Sign free agents O-linemen Jordan Gross (LT) and Marc Colombo (RT) to long term deals. Both are under 30. Overpay both of them if you have to and you will). Make gross the highest paid o-lineman in the league if you have to (and you'll have to) - just get them signed. This will also allow you to move Albert back to his natural position at RG and shoudl give the Chiefs an above average o-line.

    The Chiefs need a RT. So, Colombo would be an ok FA decision if you don't want to draft one in the 3rd round. The Chiefs don't need a LT. Albert's "natural position" IS LT. He was moved to OG in college because the coaching staff thought they had a better LT on their roster, which made moving Albert to OG feasible. Moving Albert to OG would be overkill at a position that doesn't require a top 15 pick to be successful. Think about this. How pissed would you be if the Chiefs spent a first round pick on an OG when they could've used it on to fill a position like DE or LB? A more efficient use of resources would be to draft a guard in the 3rd or 4th round. Guard in particular is a cheap position to fill and shouldn't be looked at as a position that you throw money at.

    Then sign Julius Pepper, Terrell Suggs, and Albert Haynesworth to long term deals for your d-line. All are under 30. Overpay them if you have to. Keep Dorsey at DT. The Chiefs will have the cap room to do this, even if you ignore step 2.

    Julius Peppers is a poor long-term investment. He isn't a player you can build around. He won't be in the league much longer and he won't come to KC to help in a rebuild when he'll have plenty on opportunities elsewhere to win a Super Bowl before his career ends. The Titans aren't letting their best player leave. Haynesworth will be franchised again. Terrell Suggs is one of THE MOST overrated OLBs in the league. He's been in the NFL since 2003 and has had only 1 season with at least 80 tackles. His tackle totals per season are as follows, 27, 60, 68, 64, 80 and 28 so far this season. Compare that to DJ who has been here since 2005, his tackle totals are 95, 75, 94 and 34 so far this season. If it's an OLB you want to sign as a FA, you need to look at someone like the 26 year old Jonathan Vilma who is coming off an injury last season, but his tackles totals per year since 2004 are 107, 169, 113, 43 and 63 so far this season. If you want to throw some big FA dollars around, this guy needs to be on top of your list.

    2. Clear out the dead weight.

    Cut Brodie Croyle, Tamba Hali, MacIntosh, Donnie Edwards, all WRs not named Bowe, Pollard, Tank, Turk, Surtain, and every other project player that hasn't worked out. Try to trade those tradable and cut the rest.

    Brodie Croyle, Tamba Hali, ALL THE WR's, Bernard Pollar, Tank Tyler and Turk McBride are not "dead weight." Mac and Surtain, ok. But all the other guys you just listed are young projectable players with high value to this or ANY OTHER team for that matter. They are all young and need some playing time before they can be expected to start playing like the Pro Bowlers you think they should already be.

    3. Fix the QB position

    Sign JP Losman to a two-year deal for near the minimum. Draft Stafford out of Georgia with the overall number 1 pick (which KC probably will have). Sit Stafford for a year at least and don't get him killed.

    Drafting a QB should be a priority for the Chiefs as long as they don't reach. Stafford isn't a top 5 talent and the Chiefs will/should have to trade down to pick him. JP Losman is not "fixing the problem." Croyle will serve as an above average backup if the Chiefs draft a QB. They should conserve their resources to spend it elsewhere besides a backup QB. Plus, we just signed Gray who is a lateral move to Losman.

    4. Convince Gonzalez and Waters not to retire.

    This will be difficult, but a new regime committed to winning might be able to do it.

    Neither are going to retire. But, if they do, we already have Cottam for Gonzo and if Waters decides to retire, then AND ONLY THEN, should the Chiefs look to Free Agency to fill the OG spot.

    5. Don't cut or trade LJ

    It makes no sense to cut him and eat his cap hit. Try to get 2-3 good years out of him. Behind a revamped line and with a good QB, he may become rejuvinated.

    Agreed. Peterson was enamored with the playoff appearance in 2006 and went off the deep end by signing this guy to a long-term deal. The franchise made their bed, now they have to lie in it. His trade value is almost nothing.

    6. Draft well

    Everyone needs to stop pretending Herm Edwards has drafted well. He hasn't, and most of his draft picks will be out of the league when their rookie contracts are up.

    Even if the free agency plan above goes to plan, the Chiefs are still deficient at most positions. Stafford in the 1st round, and some mixture of WR, OL, LB, and CB over the rest. Do NOT draft any more DTs, RBs, TEs, or Ss.

    yeah, maybe we should get Vermeil back in here. He was a freaking genius in the draft. To say Edwards hasn't drafted well is just ridiculous. Page, Webb, Stallings, Croyle, Pollard, Hali, Taylor, Smith, Tyler, McBride, Bowe, Merritt, Johnston, Richardson, Carr, Franklin, Morgan, Cottam, Charles, Flowers, Albert and Dorsey are all still with the team. That's 22/26 players.

    You honestly think at least 14 (most) of those players won't be here after their rookie contracts are up? Seriously? Dorsy, Albert, Flowers, Charles, Cottam, Morgan, Carr, Bowe, Smith, Taylor, Tank, Hali, Pollard and Page will absolutely still be with this team after their rookie contracts. That's already 14. Webb, Stallings, Croyle, Turk, Merritt, Johnston, Richardson, and Franklin are the others remaining. I think Richardson has the talent to be a RT in this league. Croyle will serve as a good backup. I think Turk has a bright future as well.

    But also, to say that "most" of these players won't be here past their rookie contracts is a cop-out. Teams usually get more 2nd day picks than 1st day picks, so yeah, chances are, MOST won't turn out to be great players. But the key to drafting great players is at least hitting on your first day picks. LJ and DJ are the only 1st day picks from the Vermeil era that are even still with the team and if you add Mitchell and Sims to that list, they're the only first day picks still in the ENTIRE LEAGUE!!!

    Hali isn't the pass rusher people want him to be, but that's not what he was drafted to be. He was drafted to be the bookend opposite Jarred Allen (the pass rusher). The Chiefs need to get Hali back to the other side to play his "natural position," not cut him as "dead weight." Pollard is a starter and isn't NEARLY as bad as most of you think he is. When I look at Pollard, I see a Bob Sanders in the making. Brodie Croyle... is Brodie Croyle. I didn't like the idea of building a franchise around a 3rd round QB in the first place. But he could be a good backup.

    Dwayne Bowe is a Pro Bowl WR. Period. Turk is developing, but I think he was a reach in the 2nd round. I'd be much higher on him if he were a 4th or 5th round pick. But he should be doing more as a 2nd round pick. Tank Tyler is going to be a good DT next to Dorsey. I still can't believe we got him in the 3rd round!! He's going to be a special player.

    Glenn Dorsey is going to be a Pro Bowl DT. Period. Albert is going to be a Pro Bowl LT. Period. That kid is spectacular as a rookie going against some of the best vets in the league. He's a keeper. Flowers is WAY too good to think he's going to wash out. Charles > Bush IMO. Just wait. Cottam is a faster, bigger Gonzo. Dajuan Morgan should be a starter in the league RIGHT NOW. But he's blocked by Pollard.

    The key to good drafts is hitting on your first day picks. That is DEFINITELY something Herm has done in his tenure.

  11. #20
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    [/QUOTE]7. Clean out the coaches and management personnel

    Even if they weren't terrible at their jobs (and they are), you need to do this to rebuild faith in the franchise.


    Peterson needs to go. I agree. He's had 20 years. His negligence in the draft, on the offensive line, his big contracts to players like LJ are inexcusable. This mess is HIS fault. He allowed Vermeil to come in and sell off draft picks for rental players in order to give Lamar the trophy before his death. Now, we're stuck with this awful and incredibly young team. It's going to take a few years with this core group of players to be playoff contenders. But, when they DO mature and gain experience, you're going to be talking about the Chiefs like you have been talking about the Colts and Patriots. Those teams built thru the draft to establish their core group and then went to the free agent market to get players who can compliment those players.

    I think Herm Edwards should be allowed to coach a team that he built when they're playing at their best in a couple seasons. Chan Gailey is a good OC. Gunther Cunningham is a good DC. These are the guys coming up with the schemes and calling the plays. The problem is execution from this VERY young team. The rushing defense is awful because the young Dline can't stay in their gaps and we only have one good LB.

    The offense is awful because the QBs can't stay healthy. You can blame the Oline all you want, but when the defense brings more players than you have to block them, unless the QB makes a quick decision, he's going to get hit. It's football. QBs get hit. The good ones throw the ball or run before that happens. But we don't have a good QB. The Chiefs are allowing 3 sacks per game after 6 games currently ranked 23 in the league. The Chiefs have given up only 5 sacks to defensive linemen. The Chiefs' Oline has allowed few sacks than teams like the Patriots (30th 4SPG), Steelers (27th 3.3SPG) and the Bills (26th 3.3SPG).

    The Patriots lost their QB even when they HAD enough players to block the blitzing Pollard. QB injuries happen. Matt Cassell has come in and been sacked 24 times this season and he's getting better! The Chiefs' QB's have no excuses for their poor play. Rothlisberger, Kitna, Russell, Trent Edwards, and the Palmer/Fitzgerald combo have ALL been sacked more than the Croyle/Huard/Thigpen combo.

    Bottom line, the Chiefs' QBs are absolutely awful/fragile on their own and criticism of the Oline needs to be tempered at least somewhat. They're a young group who haven't played together...ever. They don't have the continuity regular Olines have. That being said, I don't know what to tell you about the Patriot's line. If ANYONE has a reason to complain about an offensive line, it's that Patriots. That whole line consists of Pro Bowlers and they've given up more sacks than almost anyone!!


    Cowher probably won't coach here (quit dreaming, people). Get Lane Kiffin (at least he'll care about Raiders games). Let him rebuild his staff. Throw a dumptruck of money at Scott Pioli to GM here.
    What do you think?[/QUOTE]

    So, a retired Cowher is a dream, but a fully employed Pioli who is in charge of a perennial Super Bowl contender and who's hiring would require tampering... isn't a dream?

    With all these big money suggestions and free agent pipe dream I'm either having flashbacks of the Raider's 2008 off season or the Dick Vermeil era of player acquisitions. Either way, it's a losing plan.

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