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Thread: How to fix the Chiefs

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    Default How to fix the Chiefs


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    The Chiefs are one of more interesting teams in the league, and could be one of the easiest to rebuild. In my opinion, the following owould be the best way:

    1. Be very, very active in free agency and fix your lines.

    Sign free agents O-linemen Jordan Gross (LT) and Marc Colombo (RT) to long term deals. Both are under 30. Overpay both of them if you have to and you will). Make gross the highest paid o-lineman in the league if you have to (and you'll have to) - just get them signed. This will also allow you to move Albert back to his natural position at RG and shoudl give the Chiefs an above average o-line.

    Then sign Julius Pepper, Terrell Suggs, and Albert Haynesworth to long term deals for your d-line. All are under 30. Overpay them if you have to. Keep Dorsey at DT. The Chiefs will have the cap room to do this, even if you ignore step 2.

    2. Clear out the dead weight.

    Cut Brodie Croyle, Tamba Hali, MacIntosh, Donnie Edwards, all WRs not named Bowe, Pollard, Tank, Turk, Surtain, and every other project player that hasn't worked out. Try to trade those tradable and cut the rest.

    3. Fix the QB position

    Sign JP Losman to a two-year deal for near the minimum. Draft Stafford out of Georgia with the overall number 1 pick (which KC probably will have). Sit Stafford for a year at least and don't get him killed.

    4. Convince Gonzalez and Waters not to retire.

    This will be difficult, but a new regime committed to winning might be able to do it.

    5. Don't cut or trade LJ

    It makes no sense to cut him and eat his cap hit. Try to get 2-3 good years out of him. Behind a revamped line and with a good QB, he may become rejuvinated.

    6. Draft well

    Everyone needs to stop pretending Herm Edwards has drafted well. He hasn't, and most of his draft picks will be out of the league when their rookie contracts are up.

    Even if the free agency plan above goes to plan, the Chiefs are still deficient at most positions. Stafford in the 1st round, and some mixture of WR, OL, LB, and CB over the rest. Do NOT draft any more DTs, RBs, TEs, or Ss.

    7. Clean out the coaches and management personnel

    Even if they weren't terrible at their jobs (and they are), you need to do this to rebuild faith in the franchise.

    Cowher probably won't coach here (quit dreaming, people). Get Lane Kiffin (at least he'll care about Raiders games). Let him rebuild his staff. Throw a dumptruck of money at Scott Pioli to GM here.

    What do you think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by texaschief View Post
    ugh. the Chiefs don't run a Cover-2.
    They are trying to run the cover 2, and they have specifically drafted and signed personnel for that defense (especially Hali, Dorsey, and Flowers).

    The fact that the defense on the field is not a Tampa 2 defense stems from the utter lack of pass rush from the front 4, our subpar (except Johnson) LBs, and the slow safties.

    You are all right that Pollard might work in a different system, but I don't see any way to view him as anything but a poor man's Roy Williams right now.

    And people, stop pretending Brodie Croyle will be in the NFL next year. He's D-U-N. He is out of the eague. Any future plans for the Chiefs will not involve him. Stop pretending.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grbac View Post
    This Lamerson dude mentioned to sign J.P.Losman to a 2 year deal as a Chief.You need to get off this site because that was the worst comment I have ever heard on here.
    Really? Losman is an average QB who will come cheap.

    You in turn, have said Brodie Croyle should be our starter next year because he practiced against Ty Law and Patrick Surtain.

    Grbac, are you really this , or are you just trolling?
    Last edited by chief31; 10-30-2008 at 08:21 AM.

  4. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by texaschief View Post
    yeah, maybe we should get Vermeil back in here. He was a freaking genius in the draft. To say Edwards hasn't drafted well is just ridiculous. Page, Webb, Stallings, Croyle, Pollard, Hali, Taylor, Smith, Tyler, McBride, Bowe, Merritt, Johnston, Richardson, Carr, Franklin, Morgan, Cottam, Charles, Flowers, Albert and Dorsey are all still with the team. That's 22/26 players.

    You honestly think at least 14 (most) of those players won't be here after their rookie contracts are up? Seriously? Dorsy, Albert, Flowers, Charles, Cottam, Morgan, Carr, Bowe, Smith, Taylor, Tank, Hali, Pollard and Page will absolutely still be with this team after their rookie contracts. That's already 14. Webb, Stallings, Croyle, Turk, Merritt, Johnston, Richardson, and Franklin are the others remaining. I think Richardson has the talent to be a RT in this league. Croyle will serve as a good backup. I think Turk has a bright future as well.

    But also, to say that "most" of these players won't be here past their rookie contracts is a cop-out. Teams usually get more 2nd day picks than 1st day picks, so yeah, chances are, MOST won't turn out to be great players. But the key to drafting great players is at least hitting on your first day picks. LJ and DJ are the only 1st day picks from the Vermeil era that are even still with the team and if you add Mitchell and Sims to that list, they're the only first day picks still in the ENTIRE LEAGUE!!!

    Hali isn't the pass rusher people want him to be, but that's not what he was drafted to be. He was drafted to be the bookend opposite Jarred Allen (the pass rusher). The Chiefs need to get Hali back to the other side to play his "natural position," not cut him as "dead weight." Pollard is a starter and isn't NEARLY as bad as most of you think he is. When I look at Pollard, I see a Bob Sanders in the making. Brodie Croyle... is Brodie Croyle. I didn't like the idea of building a franchise around a 3rd round QB in the first place. But he could be a good backup.

    Dwayne Bowe is a Pro Bowl WR. Period. Turk is developing, but I think he was a reach in the 2nd round. I'd be much higher on him if he were a 4th or 5th round pick. But he should be doing more as a 2nd round pick. Tank Tyler is going to be a good DT next to Dorsey. I still can't believe we got him in the 3rd round!! He's going to be a special player.

    Glenn Dorsey is going to be a Pro Bowl DT. Period. Albert is going to be a Pro Bowl LT. Period. That kid is spectacular as a rookie going against some of the best vets in the league. He's a keeper. Flowers is WAY too good to think he's going to wash out. Charles > Bush IMO. Just wait. Cottam is a faster, bigger Gonzo. Dajuan Morgan should be a starter in the league RIGHT NOW. But he's blocked by Pollard.

    The key to good drafts is hitting on your first day picks. That is DEFINITELY something Herm has done in his tenure.
    I had to respond to this, and every other defense of Herm Edwards's drafting abilities.

    1. I have never said Flowers would wash out. I have always said that was best KC pick over the past three years.

    2. You're right - Page, Webb, Stallings, Croyle, Pollard, Hali, Taylor, Smith, Tyler, McBride, Bowe, Merritt, Johnston, Richardson, Carr, Franklin, Morgan, Cottam, Charles, Flowers, Albert and Dorsey are all still on the team. Don't you think that is more of a sign that the Chiefs lack talent than how good of picks they were? How many of those do you really think will ever be legitimate starters?

    Hali - A bust. Is getting run over every running play and is unable to rush the passer without a premier pass rusher taking up double teams.

    Webb - A bust. Can't even crack the Chiefs 3rd WR spot despite the distinct lack of talent in the WR corps (outside Bowe).

    Stallings - A bust. Can't crack the RG spot despite the immortal Adrian Jones stinking it up over there.

    Croyle - Look, he is out of the league. He will never play another game. He won't be backing us (or anyone up) next year. He is a massive bust.

    Pollard - I'll agree to disagree until he's in a coherent defensive scheme.

    Hali - Hey, you listed him twice! I think you meant Page, who can't tackle or cover - bust.

    Taylor - He's a servicable 6th OL, but he's shown nothing in the regular season yet to have me believe he's a 16-game starter on the OL.

    Kolby Smith - A bust. If you want a 3/yd per carry runner, he's your guy. He's not a long-term solution at RB.

    Tyler - A bust. Drafted way to high. Can't stop the run or rush the passer.

    McBride - See Tyler.

    Bowe - Great pick. Of course, one that Edwards fought.

    Merritt - A non-factor this year. He's the Chiefs 4th TE or 2nd FB. Wasted pick either way.

    Johnston - A bust. Can't start over Alfonso Boone despite Herm trying to give him the job.

    Richardson - A bust. Can't start over McIntosh despite Herm trying to give him the job.

    Carr - Solid slot CB.

    Franklin - A bust. Injury prone and undersized.

    Morgan - Undecided - will have to wait and see. Has done nothing yet this year.

    Cottam - Undecided - will have to wait and see how he performs without Tony G.

    Charles - Want to see if he can stand up to a real defense before declaring him anyhting more than a 3rd down back, but looked good against the Jets.

    Flowers - Stud pick. See #1.

    Albert - Injury prone and out of place as a LT. Yes, he played LT in high school. He is a better RG and should be moved there.

    Dorsey - Is getting blown out so far this year. May turn into a stud, but at least not until his 2nd contract.

    This isn't counting the four picks no longer on the team.

    Look, few teams have drafted worse than the Chiefs these past three years. So many rookies have played for the Chiefs, not because they are so good, but because the Chiefs cannot (or will not) attract legitimate free agents.

    For some reason, you think I'm defending Vermeil's drafting abilities. Vermiel, in the first three rounds of 2001 to 2005 drafted:

    Derrick Johnson (2005)
    Colquitt (2005)
    Junior Siavii (2004)
    Kris Wilson (2004)
    Keyaron Fox (2004)
    Larry Johnson (2003)
    Kawika Mitchell (2003)
    Julian Battle (2003)
    Ryan Sims (2002)
    Eddie Freeman (2002)
    Eric Downing (2001)
    Marvin Minnis (2001)

    They also traded a 1st and 2nd for Trent Green, who turned out pretty well, and a 2nd for Surtain, who has been servicable as a CB.

    D. Johnson, L. Johnson, Colquitt, Green, Surtain, and Mitchell were good picks/trades. That's 6 out of 15. It is not a good average (although JA in the 5th was a steal).

    Edwards has busted on 16 picks. I'll call 5 undecided (Dorsey, Albert, Morgan, Charles, Cottam). Even giving you Pollard, Carr, Flowers, Taylor, and Bowe, that's only a 23% hit rate (5 out of 21, with 5 undecided). Only factoring in 1st to 3rd rounders, and even considering Pollard, that's only 3 hits, 5 undecided, and 4 busts. That isn't a good record. It's as bad as Vermeil's.

    Edwards can't coach, scout talent, manage a game, manage a clock, win the loyalty of his own players, or do anything else. He's the worst coach in the NFL, and the Chiefs won't recover until he's gone. He's the Isiah Thomas of the NFL.
    Last edited by chief31; 10-29-2008 at 01:34 AM.

  5. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmlamerson View Post
    I had to respond to this, and every other defense of Herm Edwards's drafting abilities.

    1. I have never said Flowers would wash out. I have always said that was best KC pick over the past three years.

    2. You're right - Page, Webb, Stallings, Croyle, Pollard, Hali, Taylor, Smith, Tyler, McBride, Bowe, Merritt, Johnston, Richardson, Carr, Franklin, Morgan, Cottam, Charles, Flowers, Albert and Dorsey are all still on the team. Don't you think that is more of a sign that the Chiefs lack talent than how good of picks they were? How many of those do you really think will ever be legitimate starters?

    Hali - A bust. Is getting run over every running play and is unable to rush the passer without a premier pass rusher taking up double teams.

    Webb - A bust. Can't even crack the Chiefs 3rd WR spot despite the distinct lack of talent in the WR corps (outside Bowe).

    Stallings - A bust. Can't crack the RG spot despite the immortal Adrian Jones stinking it up over there.

    Croyle - Look, he is out of the league. He will never play another game. He won't be backing us (or anyone up) next year. He is a massive bust.

    Pollard - I'll agree to disagree until he's in a coherent defensive scheme.

    Hali - Hey, you listed him twice! I think you meant Page, who can't tackle or cover - bust.

    Taylor - He's a servicable 6th OL, but he's shown nothing in the regular season yet to have me believe he's a 16-game starter on the OL.

    Kolby Smith - A bust. If you want a 3/yd per carry runner, he's your guy. He's not a long-term solution at RB.

    Tyler - A bust. Drafted way to high. Can't stop the run or rush the passer.

    McBride - See Tyler.

    Bowe - Great pick. Of course, one that Edwards fought.

    Merritt - A non-factor this year. He's the Chiefs 4th TE or 2nd FB. Wasted pick either way.

    Johnston - A bust. Can't start over Alfonso Boone despite Herm trying to give him the job.

    Richardson - A bust. Can't start over McIntosh despite Herm trying to give him the job.

    Carr - Solid slot CB.

    Franklin - A bust. Injury prone and undersized.

    Morgan - Undecided - will have to wait and see. Has done nothing yet this year.

    Cottam - Undecided - will have to wait and see how he performs without Tony G.

    Charles - Want to see if he can stand up to a real defense before declaring him anyhting more than a 3rd down back, but looked good against the Jets.

    Flowers - Stud pick. See #1.

    Albert - Injury prone and out of place as a LT. Yes, he played LT in high school. He is a better RG and should be moved there.

    Dorsey - Is getting blown out so far this year. May turn into a stud, but at least not until his 2nd contract.

    This isn't counting the four picks no longer on the team.

    Look, few teams have drafted worse than the Chiefs these past three years. So many rookies have played for the Chiefs, not because they are so good, but because the Chiefs cannot (or will not) attract legitimate free agents.

    For some reason, you think I'm defending Vermeil's drafting abilities. Vermiel, in the first three rounds of 2001 to 2005 drafted:

    Derrick Johnson (2005)
    Colquitt (2005)
    Junior Siavii (2004)
    Kris Wilson (2004)
    Keyaron Fox (2004)
    Larry Johnson (2003)
    Kawika Mitchell (2003)
    Julian Battle (2003)
    Ryan Sims (2002)
    Eddie Freeman (2002)
    Eric Downing (2001)
    Marvin Minnis (2001)

    They also traded a 1st and 2nd for Trent Green, who turned out pretty well, and a 2nd for Surtain, who has been servicable as a CB.

    D. Johnson, L. Johnson, Colquitt, Green, Surtain, and Mitchell were good picks/trades. That's 6 out of 15. It is not a good average (although JA in the 5th was a steal).

    Edwards has busted on 16 picks. I'll call 5 undecided (Dorsey, Albert, Morgan, Charles, Cottam). Even giving you Pollard, Carr, Flowers, Taylor, and Bowe, that's only a 23% hit rate (5 out of 21, with 5 undecided). Only factoring in 1st to 3rd rounders, and even considering Pollard, that's only 3 hits, 5 undecided, and 4 busts. That isn't a good record. It's as bad as Vermeil's.

    Edwards can't coach, scout talent, manage a game, manage a clock, win the loyalty of his own players, or do anything else. He's the worst coach in the NFL, and the Chiefs won't recover until he's gone. He's the Isiah Thomas of the NFL.

    Wow, that took some effort. I have no idea if you're right or not, but you've put some serious thought into it. Cheers.
    Last edited by chief31; 10-29-2008 at 01:41 AM.

  6. #55
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    I wouldn't label Franklin a bust yet.
    Thanks for all the yards, TDs, and memories, Priest!

  7. #56
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    How is Kolby Smith a bust? Is LJ a bust cause he is also a 3 yd per carry guy behind this line.
    The only reason a beer sweats around Canada is because he's decided it will be the next beer he drinks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by m0ef0e View Post
    I wouldn't label Franklin a bust yet.
    It isn't nice to label guys eight weeks into thier careers as busts, I know, but Franklin's problems (size, injuries) won't be overcome with conditioning or training. He's too fragile to be the speed receiver they need. And MU doesn't exactly have a great WR tradition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canada View Post
    How is Kolby Smith a bust? Is LJ a bust cause he is also a 3 yd per carry guy behind this line.
    LJ was fine until Herm Edwards decided to rush him 416 times in one season. No RB in today's NFL can survive that. The fact that he is having the occasional 100 yard game is amazing to me.

    He wouldn't be great in his prime behind this line, but he'd be better than Kolby Smith.

  10. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmlamerson View Post
    The Chiefs are one of more interesting teams in the league, and could be one of the easiest to rebuild. In my opinion, the following owould be the best way:

    1. Be very, very active in free agency and fix your lines.

    Sign free agents O-linemen Jordan Gross (LT) and Marc Colombo (RT) to long term deals. Both are under 30. Overpay both of them if you have to and you will). Make gross the highest paid o-lineman in the league if you have to (and you'll have to) - just get them signed. This will also allow you to move Albert back to his natural position at RG and shoudl give the Chiefs an above average o-line.

    Then sign Julius Pepper, Terrell Suggs, and Albert Haynesworth to long term deals for your d-line. All are under 30. Overpay them if you have to. Keep Dorsey at DT. The Chiefs will have the cap room to do this, even if you ignore step 2.

    2. Clear out the dead weight.

    Cut Brodie Croyle, Tamba Hali, MacIntosh, Donnie Edwards, all WRs not named Bowe, Pollard, Tank, Turk, Surtain, and every other project player that hasn't worked out. Try to trade those tradable and cut the rest.

    3. Fix the QB position

    Sign JP Losman to a two-year deal for near the minimum. Draft Stafford out of Georgia with the overall number 1 pick (which KC probably will have). Sit Stafford for a year at least and don't get him killed.

    4. Convince Gonzalez and Waters not to retire.

    This will be difficult, but a new regime committed to winning might be able to do it.

    5. Don't cut or trade LJ

    It makes no sense to cut him and eat his cap hit. Try to get 2-3 good years out of him. Behind a revamped line and with a good QB, he may become rejuvinated.

    6. Draft well

    Everyone needs to stop pretending Herm Edwards has drafted well. He hasn't, and most of his draft picks will be out of the league when their rookie contracts are up.

    Even if the free agency plan above goes to plan, the Chiefs are still deficient at most positions. Stafford in the 1st round, and some mixture of WR, OL, LB, and CB over the rest. Do NOT draft any more DTs, RBs, TEs, or Ss.

    7. Clean out the coaches and management personnel

    Even if they weren't terrible at their jobs (and they are), you need to do this to rebuild faith in the franchise.

    Cowher probably won't coach here (quit dreaming, people). Get Lane Kiffin (at least he'll care about Raiders games). Let him rebuild his staff. Throw a dumptruck of money at Scott Pioli to GM here.

    What do you think?
    I think number "7" should be number "1".


  11. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chiefster View Post
    I think number "7" should be number "1".
    Amen

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