Originally Posted by
jmlamerson
I had to respond to this, and every other defense of Herm Edwards's drafting abilities.
1. I have never said Flowers would wash out. I have always said that was best KC pick over the past three years.
Really? Flowers is the "best pick?" The 2nd RD CB? wow.
2. You're right - Page, Webb, Stallings, Croyle, Pollard, Hali, Taylor, Smith, Tyler, McBride, Bowe, Merritt, Johnston, Richardson, Carr, Franklin, Morgan, Cottam, Charles, Flowers, Albert and Dorsey are all still on the team. Don't you think that is more of a sign that the Chiefs lack talent than how good of picks they were? How many of those do you really think will ever be legitimate starters?
All those will be "legitimate starters." Period.
Hali - A bust. Is getting run over every running play and is unable to rush the passer without a premier pass rusher taking up double teams.
a bust? are you kidding? what are you smoking? Is he a premier, rushing DE? no. that's not what he was drafted to be. he was drafted to be a bookend DE opposite a premier DE in Allen. He needs to go back to his original position.
Webb - A bust. Can't even crack the Chiefs 3rd WR spot despite the distinct lack of talent in the WR corps (outside Bowe).
Any player still in the league his 3rd year after being drafted in the 6th round can't be considered a "bust" until he's out of the league. Get a clue. Hell, any player taken after the 5th round that is still in the league their rookie season has passed the term "bust." To be labeled a "bust" you need to achieve Ryan Sims/Ryan Leaf notoriety. Webb was a 6th round WR who's still in the league.
Stallings - A bust. Can't crack the RG spot despite the immortal Adrian Jones stinking it up over there.
ANOTHER 6th rounder who is still in the league during their 3rd year. I'm sure everyone in Kansas City thought this guy was going to be a Pro Bowl caliber OG when we drafted him too. Again, for a 6th rounder to still be in the league three years later is an achievement. You really should go back and count how many of Vermeil's picks, rounds 1-7 even made it to their 3rd year.... it's ok... the list is short. It won't take long.
Croyle - Look, he is out of the league. He will never play another game. He won't be backing us (or anyone up) next year. He is a massive bust.
I'd say Croyle is a disappointment more than a "bust." Again, if we had drafted him in the first round, like (oh, i don't know, Ryan Leaf/Alex Smith/David Carr?) then maybe he'd be a bust. He's going to be the backup on this team next year because he has another year on his contract and he's definitely worth keeping as a backup. While i hoped he could be the QB of the future, i'm not shocked he couldn't be. But, I'll be happy to take him as the franchise backup. Higher picks than he aren't even in the league anymore.
Pollard - I'll agree to disagree until he's in a coherent defensive scheme.
Yeah, he's only becoming the leader of the defense.
Hali - Hey, you listed him twice! I think you meant Page, who can't tackle or cover - bust.
Page is a "bust?" How the hell is HE a bust? How the hell can you label ANY 7th rounder who made a NFL team a "bust?" Page trails only 17 people in the entire league in picks. You say he can't tackle, but he's not the SS. He's not the guy who should be supporting the run in the first place. I like 3 picks though.
Taylor - He's a servicable 6th OL, but he's shown nothing in the regular season yet to have me believe he's a 16-game starter on the OL.
yeah, Taylor is awful. Especially how he performed in Albert's absence... that was atrocious.
Kolby Smith - A bust. If you want a 3/yd per carry runner, he's your guy. He's not a long-term solution at RB.
wow. A 5th round bust. Kolby was awful last year too. Your player evaluations and judgments are some of the worst I've EVER seen from anybody.
Where's Medlock? Figured you'd throw him in here... although that was Peterson's pick. How else do you explain taking the UCLA K over the best kicker in the draft?
Tyler - A bust. Drafted way to high. Can't stop the run or rush the passer.
LMFAO... sorry.
McBride - See Tyler.
McBride IS NOT a "bust." Although, i do agree that he was drafted too high. He certainly hasn't produced the way a 2nd rounder should. But if he were producing at this level as a 5th round pick, he wouldn't be considered a disappointment at this point in his career.
Bowe - Great pick. Of course, one that Edwards fought.
One that Edwards fought, huh? Where did you hear that?
Merritt - A non-factor this year. He's the Chiefs 4th TE or 2nd FB. Wasted pick either way.
Wasted... unless TG retires in next couple years and we end up needing a blocking TE in the future.... oh, wait.
Johnston - A bust. Can't start over Alfonso Boone despite Herm trying to give him the job.
lol. another 7th round "bust" that still made a NFL team.
Richardson - A bust. Can't start over McIntosh despite Herm trying to give him the job.
Where do you get your info? Everything Edwards has said this year indicated that he wants his starting unit to play together for a while before he starts replacing people. Why does that count for everyone BUT Richardson. Nonetheless, ANOTHER 6th RD "bust" that made a NFL team.
Carr - Solid slot CB.
This is the "Jared Allen" of the past 3 years. He will be the other CB opposite Flowers.
Franklin - A bust. Injury prone and undersized.
Little early to label a guy who beat out some good competition for a roster spot, a "bust" in his first year... but whatever.
Morgan - Undecided - will have to wait and see. Has done nothing yet this year.
Agreed. So, he's OBVIOUSLY a "bust" right?
Cottam - Undecided - will have to wait and see how he performs without Tony G.
Why? He's bigger and faster with better hands.
Charles - Want to see if he can stand up to a real defense before declaring him anyhting more than a 3rd down back, but looked good against the Jets.
He's NOTHING MORE than a 3rd down back. He's a change of pace back to compliment a bruising RB like Johnson. He is what he is. He's our Reggie Bush. Except, we didn't waste a top 2 pick on him.
Flowers - Stud pick. See #1.
Albert - Injury prone and out of place as a LT. Yes, he played LT in high school. He is a better RG and should be moved there.
"injury prone and out of place?" for real guy, you need to figure your sh!# out.
Dorsey - Is getting blown out so far this year. May turn into a stud, but at least not until his 2nd contract.
Defensive Tackles take a couple years to develop. Albert Haynesworth is arguebly THE best DT in the league. He was taken with the 15th pick in 2002 and made his first Pro Bowl in 2007. That's why i haven't given up hope on Tank or Turk yet.
This isn't counting the four picks no longer on the team.
Look, few teams have drafted worse than the Chiefs these past three years. So many rookies have played for the Chiefs, not because they are so good, but because the Chiefs cannot (or will not) attract legitimate free agents.
Can you show me some statistics to back this claim up or are you just spouting more bullsh!#? I'd just like to see some comparison.
For some reason, you think I'm defending Vermeil's drafting abilities. Vermiel, in the first three rounds of 2001 to 2005 drafted:
Derrick Johnson (2005)starter
Colquitt (2005)starter
Junior Siavii (2004)Not in the league
Kris Wilson (2004)backup
Keyaron Fox (2004)backup in Pitt
Larry Johnson (2003)starter
Kawika Mitchell (2003)starter
Julian Battle (2003)not in the league
Ryan Sims (2002)backup in tampa
Eddie Freeman (2002)not in the league
Eric Downing (2001)not in the league
Marvin Minnis (2001)not in the league
3 starters and a punter... nice.
They also traded a 1st and 2nd for Trent Green, who turned out pretty well, and a 2nd for Surtain, who has been servicable as a CB.
Was Trent Green really worth a 1st and 2nd? Give me a break. If we got back P. Manning, MAYBE... but Trent Green? please.
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