Will KC fire Herm? (poll)

[D.A.S.]

Now that Carl is gone do you think he gets the boot?

[texaschief]

I agreed with the decision to trade Allen. Although he most definitely would have been part of a strong foundation, something HAD to be done on the offensive and defensive lines. We desperately needed a LT. Everyone on this board was SCREAMING about the O-line. At pick 5, there were no OTs to be had. Everyone knew Long wouldn't fall to KC. The Chiefs HAD to get back in the first round to get a good OT. You're not going to do that without trading a valuable piece. It's just too bad they weren't able to do that with LJ before his value dropped out. If we had, we'd probably still have Allen right now.

Also, you're absolutely right. Injuries DO happen. But right now, the Chiefs are only 1 deep in most areas and aren't capable right now to absorb as many injuries as the Chiefs had this year. Depth killed them this season. For ANY team, it doesn't matter what level, if you don't have depth, you don't have a winning team. It's hard to find depth when you're trying to establish who's going to be in that first line.

[chief31]

I agreed with the decision to trade Allen. Although he most definitely would have been part of a strong foundation, something HAD to be done on the offensive and defensive lines. We desperately needed a LT. Everyone on this board was SCREAMING about the O-line. At pick 5, there were no OTs to be had. Everyone knew Long wouldn't fall to KC. The Chiefs HAD to get back in the first round to get a good OT. You're not going to do that without trading a valuable piece. It's just too bad they weren't able to do that with LJ before his value dropped out. If we had, we'd probably still have Allen right now.

Also, you're absolutely right. Injuries DO happen. But right now, the Chiefs are only 1 deep in most areas and aren't capable right now to absorb as many injuries as the Chiefs had this year. Depth killed them this season. For ANY team, it doesn't matter what level, if you don't have depth, you don't have a winning team. It's hard to find depth when you're trying to establish who's going to be in that first line.

And that lack of depth is entirely out of Herms hands. He didn't stop playing Napoleon Harris. (Oops. Yeah, he did.)

He had nothing to do with the decision to get rid of Kawika Mitchell. (Well, a hasty youth movement may have played a small part in that.)

Scott Fujita, Ryan Simms, Ty Law, Greg Wesley, Jimmy Wilkerson....

And, just for good measure, let's include Jared Allen. That's eight defensive players that provide a ton of depth.

With the arguable exception of Law, each of those players has performed as well as a current Chiefs starter at their respective positions.

I wonder why this team doesn't have any depth.

[texaschief]

Ryan Simms: 15 tkls I'd much rather have Boone and Edwards
Ty Law: played 5 games this season. I'd rather have Leggitt personally.
Kawika Mitchell has gotten worse every year since he left here. He's playing on defenses that hide him a lot better than the Chiefs' defense did. He's barely average. You really need to get off this guy's nuts. He only has 72tkls this season. 42 of them solo. In seven starts, Rocky Boiman has 57 tkls with 44 solo. Add that to Thomas' 44 and 33 and we've received more production than what Mitchell has been able to accomplish in 14 games. We'd be worse off with Mitchell.
Wilkerson and his 19 tkls can stay in Tampa. Again, I'd much rather have Boone and Edwards.
Greg Wesley wasn't even picked up this season. You can't be serious.
Scott Fujita left on his own as a FA. Would he be better than our other OLB, yeah. But it's not like he was cut.

These are the players you want playing for the Chiefs? wow.

[theaxeeffect4311]

Ryan Simms: 15 tkls I'd much rather have Boone and Edwards
Ty Law: played 5 games this season. I'd rather have Leggitt personally.
Kawika Mitchell has gotten worse every year since he left here. He's playing on defenses that hide him a lot better than the Chiefs' defense did. He's barely average. You really need to get off this guy's nuts. He only has 72tkls this season. 42 of them solo. In seven starts, Rocky Boiman has 57 tkls with 44 solo. Add that to Thomas' 44 and 33 and we've received more production than what Mitchell has been able to accomplish in 14 games. We'd be worse off with Mitchell.
Wilkerson and his 19 tkls can stay in Tampa. Again, I'd much rather have Boone and Edwards.
Greg Wesley wasn't even picked up this season. You can't be serious.
Scott Fujita left on his own as a FA. Would he be better than our other OLB, yeah. But it's not like he was cut.

These are the players you want playing for the Chiefs? wow.

You cannot compare tackles as far as how a player is doing. Not to mention the numbers can be skewed since the Chiefs defense is on the field a lot more than the Bills defense.

I believe the comment about veteran players on the team has to do with depth on a team. Those players do not have to be starters, but they could provide a level of play comparable to the young players starting.

[texaschief]

You cannot compare tackles as far as how a player is doing. Not to mention the numbers can be skewed since the Chiefs defense is on the field a lot more than the Bills defense.

I believe the comment about veteran players on the team has to do with depth on a team. Those players do not have to be starters, but they could provide a level of play comparable to the young players starting.

Like Boone, Edwards, Babin, McGraw, McIntosh, Gonzo, Waters, Niswanger, Jones, Harris, Edwards, Surtain?

[theaxeeffect4311]

Like Boone, Edwards, Babin, McGraw, McIntosh, Gonzo, Waters, Niswanger, Jones, Harris, Edwards, Surtain?

Then how can you say that the Chiefs are only 1 deep at each position? If these players are comparable to the starters then injuries should not be a factor.

Also, you may be able to shed light on this one as well. The excuse for Herm this season is that the youth movement, inexperience, injuries, (1 linebacker), and trading Jared Allen. So what is his excuse for last season when the Chiefs went 4-12?

Let me guess...Larry Johnson's injury?

[texaschief]

Then how can you say that the Chiefs are only 1 deep at each position? If these players are comparable to the starters then injuries should not be a factor.

Also, you may be able to shed light on this one as well. The excuse for Herm this season is that the youth movement, inexperience, injuries, (1 linebacker), and trading Jared Allen. So what is his excuse for last season when the Chiefs went 4-12?

Let me guess...Larry Johnson's injury?

All I was saying was that those guys were better than the guys 31 mentioned. half the guys I mentioned are starters... if you look closely. That means they aren't providing depth. The Chiefs went 4-12 last year because of old age, injuries, no QB, no RB, no O-line, no CBs, 1LB and a poor OC.

This year, we got rid of most of the older players who didn't contribute and gained a bunch of talented rookies. We might have found a QB. Johnson is healthy. The O-line played much better this year. We got an OC who could adjust the system to compliment his player's talents. We have 3 rookie CBs who have played MUCH better than Surtain and Law. But, we still have 1LB and now we don't have a pass rushing DE.

Besides a couple more upgrades on the O-line, a couple new LBs and now a pass rushing DE, this team is in a MUCH better position than they were last year.

[theaxeeffect4311]

All I was saying was that those guys were better than the guys 31 mentioned. half the guys I mentioned are starters... if you look closely. That means they aren't providing depth. The Chiefs went 4-12 last year because of old age, injuries, no QB, no RB, no O-line, no CBs, 1LB and a poor OC.

This year, we got rid of most of the older players who didn't contribute and gained a bunch of talented rookies. We might have found a QB. Johnson is healthy. The O-line played much better this year. We got an OC who could adjust the system to compliment his player's talents. We have 3 rookie CBs who have played MUCH better than Surtain and Law. But, we still have 1LB and now we don't have a pass rushing DE.

Besides a couple more upgrades on the O-line, a couple new LBs and now a pass rushing DE, this team is in a MUCH better position than they were last year.

But the numbers don't lie. When Herm took over in 2006, the Chiefs were a 10-6 team. His first year the Chiefs went 9-7. That is reasonable considering the Chiefs still made it to the playoffs. Then 4-12. Now 2-12. So we can talk about how much better the players are this season than the last. But if those players do not produce wins, then what is the point?

[texaschief]

But the numbers don't lie. When Herm took over in 2006, the Chiefs were a 10-6 team. His first year the Chiefs went 9-7. That is reasonable considering the Chiefs still made it to the playoffs. Then 4-12. Now 2-12. So we can talk about how much better the players are this season than the last. But if those players do not produce wins, then what is the point?

Why do you think Vermeil quit this team? This team was about to fall off the face of the planet. They did. Now, "the point" is rebuilding and player development. It doesn't happen over night.

[Seek]

Why do you think Vermeil quit this team? This team was about to fall off the face of the planet. They did. Now, "the point" is rebuilding and player development. It doesn't happen over night.

The Chiefs current defense was built by Herm. Specifically the D-line. The defense is horrible. They are about to become the worste team in NFL history with the fewest sacks.

The only reason the Chiefs are competitive the last 8 weeks is Tyler Thigpen and his consistency. He is only playing because Herm didn't do enough to upgrade the offensive line and two QB's got killed.