From NFL.com

[okikcfan]

"I think this is going to be a good football team next year. I really do. That's just my opinion. I think the players feel that way, too."

The massive rebuilding program Edwards launched this year is guaranteed to result in the worst season in club history whether the Chiefs win or lose their finale Sunday at Cincinnati.

But Edwards said the rounding up of players is just about finished.
"I'd say 85 percent of it is done now," Edwards said. "It's just the matter of another draft and free agency. Then you're going to have your team built for the most part. Then it's a matter from there of just continuing to grow on that.
"But the hard part's done," he added. "All the foundation, all the work has been laid for what's going to transpire for years to come now if we keep heading down this path. And that's the path this organization will head in through the draft, then be very selective in free agency."
With owner Clark Hunt interviewing candidates to replace Carl Peterson as general manager, Edwards also knows he may not be back next year to complete his project. Yea, ah the hard parts done? Wow, that was easy. Can't wait till next year, maybe we can go 0-16, Thanks for a year to remember Herm, and may some thing fly up yours for christmas.

[I H8 Every Team But KC]

Hey Folks, happy holidays! I'm new here and just wanted to post my opinion. Call me crazy but I feel like we are a few players away from the playoffs next year. Okay, stop laughing, I'm serious :)

Consider this...

1. For the most part, this was Tylers rookie season. In ten or so games he has posted 20 TD's & 12 Picks. Manning didn't even do that his first year. I say we stick with him & grab a decent veteran back up.

2. O-Line is playing much better. Even McIntosh (who I have been critical of) laid two monster pancake blocks to spring Charles on that big run/ catch last weekend. I think the lack of discussion concerning our new big left tackle is a good thing. No news is good news :)

3. We are set at corner & safety. Our safety's are ball hawks & big time hitters. We have three solid corners...I could even see Leggett taking Carr's spot with Carr moving to Nickel.

4. The bottom line is that I really think we are 2 LB's and a Jared Allen replacement away from a playoff berth. We will have another great draft & we will spend some of that 30+ million under the cap.

We will all soon forget this season...

[theaxeeffect4311]

Hey Folks, happy holidays! I'm new here and just wanted to post my opinion. Call me crazy but I feel like we are a few players away from the playoffs next year. Okay, stop laughing, I'm serious :)

Consider this...

1. For the most part, this was Tylers rookie season. In ten or so games he has posted 20 TD's & 12 Picks. Manning didn't even do that his first year. I say we stick with him & grab a decent veteran back up.

2. O-Line is playing much better. Even McIntosh (who I have been critical of) laid two monster pancake blocks to spring Charles on that big run/ catch last weekend. I think the lack of discussion concerning our new big left tackle is a good thing. No news is good news :)

3. We are set at corner & safety. Our safety's are ball hawks & big time hitters. We have three solid corners...I could even see Leggett taking Carr's spot with Carr moving to Nickel.

4. The bottom line is that I really think we are 2 LB's and a Jared Allen replacement away from a playoff berth. We will have another great draft & we will spend some of that 30+ million under the cap.

We will all soon forget this season...

I agree with you, but I'll throw something else into the equation. If the Chiefs can pull everything together (another good draft, good free agent acquasitions, competent defensive coordinator, sticking with Thigpen), we could easily win our division. I see our division as one of the easiest in football. The Denver defense is heading downhill every season, San Diego has Norv Turner as a head coach, and no one knows what game Oakland is playing. So all we would have to do is win the divisional games and a few others and we can make it into the playoffs. I know that is a very simplified way to do it, since it will not be that easy to win against Denver or San Diego twice in one season. However, just a few more players and this team will be good. Real Good.

Plus, new coaching would help.

[I H8 Every Team But KC]

I agree 100%...win the dicision first & foremost & we get a hosted playoff game. That would be a great start!

[Coach]

Hey Folks, happy holidays! I'm new here and just wanted to post my opinion. Call me crazy but I feel like we are a few players away from the playoffs next year. Okay, stop laughing, I'm serious :)

Consider this...

1. For the most part, this was Tylers rookie season. In ten or so games he has posted 20 TD's & 12 Picks. Manning didn't even do that his first year. I say we stick with him & grab a decent veteran back up.

2. O-Line is playing much better. Even McIntosh (who I have been critical of) laid two monster pancake blocks to spring Charles on that big run/ catch last weekend. I think the lack of discussion concerning our new big left tackle is a good thing. No news is good news :)

3. We are set at corner & safety. Our safety's are ball hawks & big time hitters. We have three solid corners...I could even see Leggett taking Carr's spot with Carr moving to Nickel.

4. The bottom line is that I really think we are 2 LB's and a Jared Allen replacement away from a playoff berth. We will have another great draft & we will spend some of that 30+ million under the cap.

We will all soon forget this season...

Great 1st post. I agree. This team isn't as bad as the record would have you believe now that Thipen is playing. Earlier in the season, I thought we were the worst team in football. If I were putting together a power ranking, I would have the Chiefs in the mid 20's ahead of teams like Cincy, Stl, Seattle, Detroit, Oakland for sure.

DE, LB's, SS, OL are the biggest positions of need IMO. Those can be fixed in the off-season. It will be interesting to see what happens with the coaching position. Believe it or not, this last game could well decide Herm's fate. Matter of fact, I would imagine that the coach who loses the Cin vs KC game on Sunday will be fired. The coach who wins the CIN vs KC game will have a decent shot of getting one more year to prove their worth.

Just my opinion.

[I H8 Every Team But KC]

Hi Coach! I was just curious...why do you think we need a SS?

Thanks for your input!

[okikcfan]

Ya know, I'm sorry but as long as Herm Edwards is the HC of the Chiefs, well I have no Faith they will do alot better next year. I know and agree they have talent and feel they could have done much better than they did this year, but as I have said and as we have all seen in the past with other teams, The team is a reflection of the coach, they are only as good as there teacher. And right now there teacher SUCKS! We need a top notch GM to step in and start at the top and work his way down. Look at the Gun, In the past we had one of the most feared D's in the NFL, ranking in the top 3 most of the time. The gun is back and Herm is here and look at our Big D now? Herm wants it his way or no way. Herm is the problem. He is a not a teacher or a Leader. He at best is a third string back up. The comments he has made in public like, " I've done everything I can do" WTF is that. That's not what a Head Coaches comments to the press about his team. Bill will not come back to coaching untill his kids are grown , outa school and sports, he has said that himself, tho it would be a nice dream to wake up from. But we all need to face the fact and look at this last year and fix what is broke. We have a good team, Herm and Carl did well in the draft. It's what they did with it once they had it. NOTHING. I'm a long time Chiefs Fan and alway will be, and I hope before I died, I unlike Lamar, I hope I get to see my beloved Chiefs not only in the Play offs but the Superbowl!!! So here's to a new year, a new GM and hopefuly a Great new season for the Chiefs and the Best Freakin Fan In The History Of FOOTBALL!!! GO CHIEFS

[Chuck]

Ya know, I'm sorry but as long as Herm Edwards is the HC of the Chiefs, well I have no Faith they will do alot better next year. I know and agree they have talent and feel they could have done much better than they did this year, but as I have said and as we have all seen in the past with other teams, The team is a reflection of the coach, they are only as good as there teacher. And right now there teacher SUCKS! We need a top notch GM to step in and start at the top and work his way down. Look at the Gun, In the past we had one of the most feared D's in the NFL, ranking in the top 3 most of the time. The gun is back and Herm is here and look at our Big D now? Herm wants it his way or no way. Herm is the problem. He is a not a teacher or a Leader. He at best is a third string back up. The comments he has made in public like, " I've done everything I can do" WTF is that. That's not what a Head Coaches comments to the press about his team. Bill will not come back to coaching untill his kids are grown , outa school and sports, he has said that himself, tho it would be a nice dream to wake up from. But we all need to face the fact and look at this last year and fix what is broke. We have a good team, Herm and Carl did well in the draft. It's what they did with it once they had it. NOTHING. I'm a long time Chiefs Fan and alway will be, and I hope before I died, I unlike Lamar, I hope I get to see my beloved Chiefs not only in the Play offs but the Superbowl!!! So here's to a new year, a new GM and hopefuly a Great new season for the Chiefs and the Best Freakin Fan In The History Of FOOTBALL!!! GO CHIEFS

OK....I agree with most of you on everything except QB. Tyler Thigpen is not the man and never will be. He has done ok with a below average team. Just take a look at the upper eschalon (spelling?) teams and compare.
1. Eli Manning - No comparison
2. Peyton Manning - I am not even comparing here.
3. Jake Delohm - He knows how to manage a game and not make the bad throws. Arm strength is much better.
4. Big Ben - Tough Tough guy. Makes the big time throws when he needs to and can also manage a game with the best of them.
5. Kerry Collins - Not a flashy guy but knows how to manage a game. Makes big throws when needed. How come Vince Young, the young stud, is not starting. Because he ran the spread in college and spread QB's can't get it done in the NFL
6. Chad Pennington - Boy did we F-up here. The boy had something to prove and he is getting it done. Not great armstrength but is completing close to 70% of his passes. Great game manager and not from a spread offense college.
I could go on and on but I am sorry Tyler Thigpen is not the man. Spread team QB's in college are not made for the NFL as neither is the spread in the NFL. Run it a little but not all the time.
One othe thing to think about our on our "D". What has been one of the biggest bugaboos we have on D. Tackling.....we can't do it. What do the good teams do...Tackle!!!!!!! Watch them. One man can make a tackle in space. We really struggle with that.

[Hayvern]

OK....I agree with most of you on everything except QB. Tyler Thigpen is not the man and never will be. He has done ok with a below average team. Just take a look at the upper eschalon (spelling?) teams and compare.

I'll be glad to do just that. First of all, you cannot compare Typer to the players below today, so lets go take a look at their first year stats and compare those shall we?

First lets look at Typer's stats this season:

Games Started: 10
Completions: 211
Attempts: 384
Percentage: 54.9
Yards: 2,417
Average: 6.3
Touchdowns: 17
Interceptions 12
Sacks: 25
Rating: 75.8
Rushing Attempts: 60
Yards: 382
Rushing TDs 3
Fumbles 5
Lost 1

That does not seem terrible when you consider what he has around him, but more on that later.

1. Eli Manning - No comparison

We will compare Tyler to Eli's first full year, even though Thigpen has not had a full year as yet.

Games Started: 16
Completions: 294
Attempts: 557
Percentage: 52.8
Yards: 3,762
Average 6.8
TD 24
Interceptions 17
Sacks 28
Rating 75.9
Rushing Yards 80
TDs 1
Fumbles 9
Lost 2

Now in comparison, I think Tyler has outperformed Eli Manning's first year, and he is playing very close to Manning's second year. Look at the total of Eli Manning's stats though, he has never been that great of a QB as far as stats goes, he may have some poise and leadership, but he has never had a year, including last year that was any better than what Tyler has been able to do this year with the weapons he has.

2. Peyton Manning - I am not even comparing here.

Let's look at Peyton's first year.

Games Started 16
Completions 326
Attempts 575
Percentage 56.7
Yards 3,739
Average 6.5
TD 26
Interceptions 28
Sacks 22
Rating 71.2
Rushing Yards 62
Average 4.1
TDs 0
Fumbles 3
Lost 1

Thigpen has played every bit as well as Peyton played in his first full year in the NFL.

3. Jake Delohm - He knows how to manage a game and not make the bad throws. Arm strength is much better.

He might know how to manage a game, but he is not playing all that much better if at all to Thigpen. The guy has been in the NFL for 11 seaons and only started 4, I would think if he was all that good he would have been starting more.

I cannot even make a comparison here since his first season as starter was 5 years after coming into the league. That first year was good, he clearly played better than almost anyone on this list at that point in his career, but he had a few years in which to study to get that good. Most of the other guys on this list, including Thigpen did not get that opportunity.

4. Big Ben - Tough Tough guy. Makes the big time throws when he needs to and can also manage a game with the best of them.

Ben is tough, playing with concussions and all, he can definately take a hit.

Lets look at the numbers his first year though:

Games Started 13
Completions 168
Attempts 295
Percentage 66.4
Yards 2,621
Average 8.9
Touchdowns 17
Interceptions 11
Sacks 30
Rating 98.1
Rushing Attempots 56
Yards 144
TD 1
Fumbles 2
Lost 2

Ben is an interesting comparison, look at the offensive line that Pittsburgh had when Ben came into the leage and there you will see the true comparison we will get to shortly. Also remember, Ben has had a few concussions, some from Motorcycle accidents and some from getting hammered behind a piss poor offensive line.

[quote=Chuck;109887]
5. Kerry Collins - Not a flashy guy but knows how to manage a game. Makes big throws when needed. How come Vince Young, the young stud, is not starting. Because he ran the spread in college and spread QB's can't get it done in the NFL [quote]

Again, you really cannot compare what this guy is doing now after 15 seasons in the NFL. This guy had serious issues with attitude in his earlier years too.

Looking at his first year..

Games Started 15
Attempts 433
Completions 214
Average 49.4
Yards 2,717
Average 6.3
Rating 61.9
Tds 14
Interceptions 19

The reason Collins is playing today over Young is because of his experience. Collins is winning today, not because of his skills on the field, even today his stats are not much better than they were on his first season with the Panthers. No, it is because the Titans has one of the very best offensive lines in the league.

[quote=Chuck;109887]
6. Chad Pennington - Boy did we F-up here. The boy had something to prove and he is getting it done. Not great armstrength but is completing close to 70% of his passes. Great game manager and not from a spread offense college.
[quote]
Pennington is a good player, but he is almost as injury prone as Croyle. With the offensive line we have, we made a good choice NOT getting Pennington, he would have been a high-priced bench warmer this season as I am sure he would have been knocked out in his second game.

I also doubt that too many in New York would be all that excited to get him back. He was a left over from an era that I am sure the Jets are all too ready to leave behind, that being the Herm Edwards era.

Games Started 12
Completions 275
Attempts 399
Percentage 68.9
Yards 3,120
Average 7.8
TD 22
Interceptions 6
Sacks 22
Rating 104.2
Rushing Attempts 29
Yards 49
TD 2
Fumbles 2
Lost 1

I could go on and on but I am sorry Tyler Thigpen is not the man. Spread team QB's in college are not made for the NFL as neither is the spread in the NFL. Run it a little but not all the time.
One othe thing to think about our on our "D". What has been one of the biggest bugaboos we have on D. Tackling.....we can't do it. What do the good teams do...Tackle!!!!!!! Watch them. One man can make a tackle in space. We really struggle with that.

Here is the thing you have to understand. We are not running the spread because it is good, nor are we running it because Thigpen cannot run anything else. We are running it because our offensive line simply sucks. Those extra 3 steps Thigpen gets is saving his life and giving him the kind of time he needs to get a pass off.

Neither Johnson nor Charles can run because the line cannot open a hole for them. Johnson has been able to adjust lately, and that is a good thing, be he does not factor nearly as much as he has in the past when we had a line that could block.

Despite all of that, Thigpen has put up good numbers and has kept us in the game. If we had a pass rusher and at least 2 good linebackers on defense, there is a good chance we could have been in the playoffs behind Thigpen.

He might not be the future, but at this point, with the protection he has, and the complement of recievers he has, I think the kid has earned the right to come back and show what he can do. I think at this point he is our best choice for QB of the future, at least until some better QBs come up in the draft, no one this year will be able to outperform Thigpen next season if they are drafted.

[I H8 Every Team But KC]

[quote=Hayvern;109899]I'll be glad to do just that. First of all, you cannot compare Typer to the players below today, so lets go take a look at their first year stats and compare those shall we?

First lets look at Typer's stats this season:

Games Started: 10
Completions: 211
Attempts: 384
Percentage: 54.9
Yards: 2,417
Average: 6.3
Touchdowns: 17
Interceptions 12
Sacks: 25
Rating: 75.8
Rushing Attempts: 60
Yards: 382
Rushing TDs 3
Fumbles 5
Lost 1

That does not seem terrible when you consider what he has around him, but more on that later.



We will compare Tyler to Eli's first full year, even though Thigpen has not had a full year as yet.

Games Started: 16
Completions: 294
Attempts: 557
Percentage: 52.8
Yards: 3,762
Average 6.8
TD 24
Interceptions 17
Sacks 28
Rating 75.9
Rushing Yards 80
TDs 1
Fumbles 9
Lost 2

Now in comparison, I think Tyler has outperformed Eli Manning's first year, and he is playing very close to Manning's second year. Look at the total of Eli Manning's stats though, he has never been that great of a QB as far as stats goes, he may have some poise and leadership, but he has never had a year, including last year that was any better than what Tyler has been able to do this year with the weapons he has.



Let's look at Peyton's first year.

Games Started 16
Completions 326
Attempts 575
Percentage 56.7
Yards 3,739
Average 6.5
TD 26
Interceptions 28
Sacks 22
Rating 71.2
Rushing Yards 62
Average 4.1
TDs 0
Fumbles 3
Lost 1

Thigpen has played every bit as well as Peyton played in his first full year in the NFL.



He might know how to manage a game, but he is not playing all that much better if at all to Thigpen. The guy has been in the NFL for 11 seaons and only started 4, I would think if he was all that good he would have been starting more.

I cannot even make a comparison here since his first season as starter was 5 years after coming into the league. That first year was good, he clearly played better than almost anyone on this list at that point in his career, but he had a few years in which to study to get that good. Most of the other guys on this list, including Thigpen did not get that opportunity.



Ben is tough, playing with concussions and all, he can definately take a hit.

Lets look at the numbers his first year though:

Games Started 13
Completions 168
Attempts 295
Percentage 66.4
Yards 2,621
Average 8.9
Touchdowns 17
Interceptions 11
Sacks 30
Rating 98.1
Rushing Attempots 56
Yards 144
TD 1
Fumbles 2
Lost 2

Ben is an interesting comparison, look at the offensive line that Pittsburgh had when Ben came into the leage and there you will see the true comparison we will get to shortly. Also remember, Ben has had a few concussions, some from Motorcycle accidents and some from getting hammered behind a piss poor offensive line.

[quote=Chuck;109887]
5. Kerry Collins - Not a flashy guy but knows how to manage a game. Makes big throws when needed. How come Vince Young, the young stud, is not starting. Because he ran the spread in college and spread QB's can't get it done in the NFL [quote]

Again, you really cannot compare what this guy is doing now after 15 seasons in the NFL. This guy had serious issues with attitude in his earlier years too.

Looking at his first year..

Games Started 15
Attempts 433
Completions 214
Average 49.4
Yards 2,717
Average 6.3
Rating 61.9
Tds 14
Interceptions 19

The reason Collins is playing today over Young is because of his experience. Collins is winning today, not because of his skills on the field, even today his stats are not much better than they were on his first season with the Panthers. No, it is because the Titans has one of the very best offensive lines in the league.

[quote=Chuck;109887]
6. Chad Pennington - Boy did we F-up here. The boy had something to prove and he is getting it done. Not great armstrength but is completing close to 70% of his passes. Great game manager and not from a spread offense college.

Pennington is a good player, but he is almost as injury prone as Croyle. With the offensive line we have, we made a good choice NOT getting Pennington, he would have been a high-priced bench warmer this season as I am sure he would have been knocked out in his second game.

I also doubt that too many in New York would be all that excited to get him back. He was a left over from an era that I am sure the Jets are all too ready to leave behind, that being the Herm Edwards era.

Games Started 12
Completions 275
Attempts 399
Percentage 68.9
Yards 3,120
Average 7.8
TD 22
Interceptions 6
Sacks 22
Rating 104.2
Rushing Attempts 29
Yards 49
TD 2
Fumbles 2
Lost 1



Here is the thing you have to understand. We are not running the spread because it is good, nor are we running it because Thigpen cannot run anything else. We are running it because our offensive line simply sucks. Those extra 3 steps Thigpen gets is saving his life and giving him the kind of time he needs to get a pass off.

Neither Johnson nor Charles can run because the line cannot open a hole for them. Johnson has been able to adjust lately, and that is a good thing, be he does not factor nearly as much as he has in the past when we had a line that could block.

Despite all of that, Thigpen has put up good numbers and has kept us in the game. If we had a pass rusher and at least 2 good linebackers on defense, there is a good chance we could have been in the playoffs behind Thigpen.

He might not be the future, but at this point, with the protection he has, and the complement of recievers he has, I think the kid has earned the right to come back and show what he can do. I think at this point he is our best choice for QB of the future, at least until some better QBs come up in the draft, no one this year will be able to outperform Thigpen next season if they are drafted.

This is a great post and a fair view of Thigpen. I don't know all the situations for each of those QB's in their first year but I do know this...Thigpen went through training camp learning a totally different offense than they are running now. I would assume those other QB's got to go through training camp learning one offense. To me, that's pretty remarkable in it's own right.

The question is what can this kid do with the addition of more good people around him on offense & defense, with a full training camp as the starter? I think the upside is phenominal!

Guys, I am new here & I am a "the cup is half full" kinda guy but I still look things through. I honestly believe this team will be good next and the pieces will come together. Good free agent aquisitions, another monster draft and this team will start to gel.

I can't wait...:)