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Thread: Jamaal Charles is the future of the chiefs anyways

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    Default Jamaal Charles is the future of the chiefs anyways


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    goodbye LJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmlamerson View Post
    If you give LJ the ball, a good OL, and he stays healthy, he will produce. The same is true for many, many RBs. Again, I'm not saying that he's a bad RB - just that he isn't worth the salary, attitude, or possible suspension. That with the conditions outlined above, almost any RB can be successful. That LJ is very replacable in the draft or FA.

    Very, very few RBs are worth big money today, and those few are threats in the passing game. LJ is a good back who we can replace fairly easily if we try.
    Ok if you say so but my point was that even with the line we had this year, he would have had over your 1200 yd mark with anywhere near the carries the top 5 guys got. I would bet there aren't many RB's that could do that. As far as the attitude and off field problems go, I agree he was a jerk but those things come with frustration. Doesn't make it right but it is true. IMO, had they given him the ball like they should have, many of these problems would not have happened. Productivity cures a lot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drunker Hillbilly View Post
    Ok if you say so but my point was that even with the line we had this year, he would have had over your 1200 yd mark with anywhere near the carries the top 5 guys got. I would bet there aren't many RB's that could do that. As far as the attitude and off field problems go, I agree he was a jerk but those things come with frustration. Doesn't make it right but it is true. IMO, had they given him the ball like they should have, many of these problems would not have happened. Productivity cures a lot.
    You do remember that he was suspended/injured for four games (or 1/4 of the year) for his personal problems, decreasing his carries? And that if you subtract the anamolous Denver game, his YPC average drops to 4.1 YPC.

    Before he was suspended after the Carolina game, he had 93 carries (18.6 carries per game) for 411 yards (4.4 YPC). It wasn't the lack of carries that screwed him up. It was only after he was suspended, the Chiefs switched to the spread to save their QB's life, and LJ mouthed off that his number of carries dropped.

    If he hadn't been suspended and mouthed off, and he had kept at 18.6 carries per game, he would have finished with a respectable 298 carries for the season. It was his fault his carries decreased, not the team's.

    TG was more frustrated than anyone else on the team - he demanded a trade midseason. And he finished 1000+ yards and in the pro bowl. LJ's suspension and attitude on the field were the cause of his problems.

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    I can't ever see Charles doing better than 1000yds at prime. I think Kolby was a better back, but I agree with the longevity of Charles' career. Who knows too, maybe we'll grab a solid back in the next 2-3yrs to puzzle into that Priest, LJ, etc. role.

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    what we need is a big back some big strong and just intimidating RB to make a defensive player not want to be the first there to try and tackle him for fear of much pain. I dont know who and i dont know where but i know hes out there waiting to become that player. there have been these players in the past. Okoye and Bettis just to mention some greats of the last 20 yrs. I like the the idea of a thunder and lightining back field but what i am asking for is a storm

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmlamerson View Post
    You do remember that he was suspended/injured for four games (or 1/4 of the year) for his personal problems, decreasing his carries? And that if you subtract the anamolous Denver game, his YPC average drops to 4.1 YPC.

    Before he was suspended after the Carolina game, he had 93 carries (18.6 carries per game) for 411 yards (4.4 YPC). It wasn't the lack of carries that screwed him up. It was only after he was suspended, the Chiefs switched to the spread to save their QB's life, and LJ mouthed off that his number of carries dropped.

    If he hadn't been suspended and mouthed off, and he had kept at 18.6 carries per game, he would have finished with a respectable 298 carries for the season. It was his fault his carries decreased, not the team's.

    TG was more frustrated than anyone else on the team - he demanded a trade midseason. And he finished 1000+ yards and in the pro bowl. LJ's suspension and attitude on the field were the cause of his problems.
    Portis
    Forte
    Grant
    LT
    Jacobs
    Jackson
    Gore
    Barber etc......

    All had more carries and all missed games for one reason or another!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drunker Hillbilly View Post
    Portis
    Forte
    Grant
    LT
    Jacobs
    Jackson
    Gore
    Barber etc......

    All had more carries and all missed games for one reason or another!!!
    True. My point was that LJ's suspension and attitude were the main causes of his decrease in workload, whereas you were saying that his decrease in workload was the cause of his attitude.

    LJ was averaging 19 carries a game until his suspension. He averaged 14/game afterwards. Add in a four game suspension, some truly awful games from him (Carolina, Cincinatti, 2nd SD game), and his overall bad numbers begin to make a lot of sense.

    The seven players you mention all missed games for injury reasons - not for behavior reasons.

    Matt Forte played all sixteen games and had 316 carries (19.8 carries/game).

    Ryan Grant played all sixteen games and had 312 carries (19.5 carries/game).

    LT played all sixteen games and had 292 carries (18.3 carries/game).

    Brandon Jacobs played in 13 games and had 219 carries (16.9 carries/game).

    Jackson played in 12 games and had 253 carries (21 carries/game).

    Gore played in 14 games and had 240 carries (17.1 carries/game).

    Marion Barber played in 15 games and had 238 carries (15.9 carries/game).

    Look at these numbers. If LJ doesn't get suspended, he averages 18.6 carries a game, which is more than LT, Jacobs, Gore, and Barber.

    As it is, he averaged 16.1 carries a game, which is more than Barber.

    Look, LJ brought his problems on himself this season. The numbers don't lie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmlamerson View Post
    True. My point was that LJ's suspension and attitude were the main causes of his decrease in workload, whereas you were saying that his decrease in workload was the cause of his attitude.

    LJ was averaging 19 carries a game until his suspension. He averaged 14/game afterwards. Add in a four game suspension, some truly awful games from him (Carolina, Cincinatti, 2nd SD game), and his overall bad numbers begin to make a lot of sense.

    The seven players you mention all missed games for injury reasons - not for behavior reasons.

    Matt Forte played all sixteen games and had 316 carries (19.8 carries/game).

    Ryan Grant played all sixteen games and had 312 carries (19.5 carries/game).

    LT played all sixteen games and had 292 carries (18.3 carries/game).

    Brandon Jacobs played in 13 games and had 219 carries (16.9 carries/game).

    Jackson played in 12 games and had 253 carries (21 carries/game).

    Gore played in 14 games and had 240 carries (17.1 carries/game).

    Marion Barber played in 15 games and had 238 carries (15.9 carries/game).

    Look at these numbers. If LJ doesn't get suspended, he averages 18.6 carries a game, which is more than LT, Jacobs, Gore, and Barber.

    As it is, he averaged 16.1 carries a game, which is more than Barber.

    Look, LJ brought his problems on himself this season. The numbers don't lie.
    Agreed on everything you wrote but if you don't think some of his attitude was due to the fact that he was not getting the carries he thought he deserved you are mistaken!! If you go to work tomorrow and your boss has given half of your responsibilities to another person tell me you won't wonder why! Then when it continues for a few weeks, tell me your attitude at work won't change. When a person is thought to be a productive piece of any team or organization and all of a sudden things change and the changes bring nothing better and most of the time worse results than when you were doing the job, everyone's attitude would change!!!! Oh yea, and Forte, Grant and LT all may have played in all 16 games but missed significant time in several throughout the year!
    Last edited by Drunker Hillbilly; 12-30-2008 at 08:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drunker Hillbilly View Post
    Agreed on everything you wrote but if you don't think some of his attitude was due to the fact that he was not getting the carries he thought he deserved you are mistaken!! If you go to work tomorrow and your boss has given half of your responsibilities to another person tell me you won't wonder why! Then when it continues for a few weeks, tell me your attitude at work won't change. When a person is thought to be a productive piece of any team or organization and all of a sudden things change and the changes bring nothing better and most of the time worse results than when you were doing the job, everyone's attitude would change!!!! Oh yea, and Forte, Grant and LT all may have played in all 16 games but missed significant time in several throughout the year!
    The thing is that LJ has had a bad attitude since the 2006 season before he got his contract extension. Then it became worse after he signed the extension because he was not being productive and blamed it on the offensive line. You can talk in analogies all you want but unless you give an answer to why LJ can break a trend of workhorse running backs becoming unproductive once they hit the age of 30, this would be an opportune time to trade LJ while he has a shred of value to another team.

    I think it is funny that on one thread you criticize people for wanting to draft 4 linemen (even though no one said that number) but here you say that for LJ to become good, the Chiefs need to fix the O-line. So what is the answer? Draft linemen? Make the players we have better? Go into FA? Give LJ another contract extension? I just wonder what you would do if this was your team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by theaxeeffect4311 View Post
    The thing is that LJ has had a bad attitude since the 2006 season before he got his contract extension. Then it became worse after he signed the extension because he was not being productive and blamed it on the offensive line. You can talk in analogies all you want but unless you give an answer to why LJ can break a trend of workhorse running backs becoming unproductive once they hit the age of 30, this would be an opportune time to trade LJ while he has a shred of value to another team.

    I think it is funny that on one thread you criticize people for wanting to draft 4 linemen (even though no one said that number) but here you say that for LJ to become good, the Chiefs need to fix the O-line. So what is the answer? Draft linemen? Make the players we have better? Go into FA? Give LJ another contract extension? I just wonder what you would do if this was your team.
    You are as out of your mind as the others have said Ive come to realize!!!! Someone did mention drafting 3 or 4 O linemen with the first picks! I said I would NOT do that because more than likely at least 1 of them would bew a bust! Also, I said FA is where you build your O line, not through the draft. I aslo said that I would keep LJ. How were LJ's numbers in 2006?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drunker Hillbilly View Post
    Now this is a classic post! YOU telling someone to get over their self!!!!
    Ahem....

    Quote Originally Posted by Drunker Hillbilly View Post
    Charles is not anywhere near the RB that LJ is. Its just a fact!
    Quote Originally Posted by Drunker Hillbilly View Post
    HAAAAAA HAAAAAAA!!!!!! Like your opinion means more than anyone else's here bud!!!! Moderator or not, your not the know all god of football!!
    I am not the one who is stating my opinion, then saying..."Its just a fact!".

    Quote Originally Posted by Drunker Hillbilly View Post
    Half a yard per carry is NOT significant when your getting tackled behind the line of scrimmage every single time you get the ball!
    If you are getting tackled behind the LOS every time, then there will be a (-) in front of your YPC stat.

    There isn't one, because that is just an exaggeration.

    I'll do some of the math for you. You believe that LJ is a top-five HB in the NFL, so I will use his numbers to show what .5 and .8 YPC means.

    2006 LJ - 1789 yards, with a 4.3 YPC. (416 carries)

    If he had averaged .5 YPC more (4.8 YPC), then he would have had 1996 yards.

    Had he been .8 YPC better (The difference between his and Charles' YPC this seasonand 5.1 YPC), then he would have had 2121 yards.

    The difference is, in the (.5 YPC x 416 carries) situation, is 207 yards.

    For the (.8 YPC x 416 carries), the difference is 334 yards.

    Like it or not, that is quite significant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drunker Hillbilly View Post
    Go ahead, stick with Charles and whomever you want to tandem with him back there. They will have one of the worst running games in football.
    A. We already had that. We call him LJ.

    B. If we stay with this Spread Offense, then the running game is secondary. LJ is a feature back, who has less value in that system.

    C. If we go back to an NFL style offense, then we might well have a a horrible running game. Just like LJ has been giving us. But we may be better, if we improve the O-line.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drunker Hillbilly View Post
    Oh yea, remove the offensive genius and HOF's from ANY team and you get what we had the past two years!!!!
    My point exactly. LJ isn't good enough to lead the league in Yards, with a bad O-line. And he doesn't contribute much in the way of anything else.

    He is far too expensive for what we are able to get from him.

    You seem to think that he is Micheal Jordan. I think that he is Scottie Pippen. (Plus a horrible attitude)

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