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Thread: WAY outside the box

  1. #1
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    Default WAY outside the box


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    What if the Chiefs bring in Rex Ryan as the new Head Coach and Romeo Crennel as the new defensive coordinator? I realize this team is being built around a 4-3 defensive concept, but when you actually look at our personnel, other than perhaps Glenn Dorsey and Tamba Hali, we don't have players who absolutely don't fit that scheme. The new corners could handle a 3-4 just as well as they do the 4-3. Same for the safeties for that matter. Although, nobody is sure those safeties are the future for this franchise anyway. That leaves Tank and DJ. Tank can at least rotate on a 3-4 defensive line. He's a big body. DJ could play in a 3-4 just as well as he could a 4-3.

    So, let's say we make the switch. We keep all DBs, Tank, and DJ.

    That gives us Dorsey and Hali as trade bait. From the Dorsey trade, I want a 1st and 2nd from the Raiders. From the Hali trade, I want a 2nd and 3rd from Buffalo. Then, we could trade LJ for a 2nd and 4th to the Cardinals and T. Gonz for a 2nd from the Packers. Let's say the Chiefs could then trade down with the 49ers who desperately want a QB at the #3 spot. We fall to #10 and pick up their 2nd, 3rd and 2010 2nd round picks.

    With draft picks:
    #7 (Raiders)
    #10 (49ers)
    -
    #35
    #40 (Raiders)
    #41 (Packers)
    #42 (Buffalo)
    #43 (49ers)
    #52 (Cardinals)
    -
    #67
    #75 (Buffalo
    -
    4
    4
    -
    5
    6
    7

    So, we have 15 picks in the 2009 draft including 2 1st rounders and 6 2nd round picks. We'll have 3 Dline spots, 3 LB spots, and two Oline spots to fill thru the draft and free agency.

    If we have Ryan as the head coach, our chances of getting Bart Scott and Terrell Suggs dramatically increase. Add Vilma and Nnamdi Asomugha to those two in free agency and now, we have only one LB and two D-line spots to fill.

    Then, in the draft we COULD take:
    #7 (Raiders) Trade pick and #75 to Browns for #5. Draft LB Aaron Curry (Wake Forest)
    #10 (49ers) DE Brian Orakpo (Texas)
    -
    #35 Trade pick and #109 to Colts for #28 Select NT Terrence Cody (Alabama)
    #40 (Raiders) WR Percy Harvin (Florida)
    #41 (Packers) DE George Selvie (South Florida)
    #42 (Buffalo) C Jonathan Luigs (Arkansas)
    #43 (49ers) OT Phil Loadholt (Oklahoma)
    #52 (Cardinals) NT B.J. Raji (Boston College)
    -
    #67 ILB Darry Beckwith (LSU)

    In the new 3-4 defense, the roster fills out like this:

    DE- Brian Orakpo/George Selvie
    NT- Terrence Cody
    DE- Terrell Suggs
    OLB- Derrick Johnson
    ILB- Jonathan Vilma
    ILB- Bart Scott
    OLB- Aaron Curry
    CB- Brandon Flowers
    FS- Jarrad Page/ DaJuan Morgan
    SS- Bernard Pollard
    CB- Nnamdi Asomugha

    The offense would be bolstered as well:

    LT- Branden Albert
    LG- Brian Waters
    C- Jonathan Luigs
    RG- Rudy Niswanger
    RT- Phil Loadholt
    TE- Brad Cottam
    WR-Dwayne Bowe
    WR-Percy Harvin
    WR-Mark Bradley
    RB-Jamaal Charles
    QB-Tyler Thigpen


    Before you rip me apart with the pure impossibility of all of this happening, look at each move individually.

    The Raiders almost took Dorsey last year and it isn't out of the question to think they'd still want him more than whoever will be there at #7. Asking for a first and 2nd for Dorsey isn't too much for the #5 pick overall last year. The difference in point value from #7 to #5 is 200. Then add a year of experience and he's worth an additional 2nd rounder that has a 400pt value.

    The Bills are going to be looking for some pass rush in the draft. Tamba Hali isn't a dominant pass rusher, but he's young, has a great motor and is at least worth a 2nd and 3rd.

    The Cardinals aren't getting consistent performance from Edgerin James and ranked dead last in rushing this season. They desperately need a consistent RB that they could count on for a 1000 yards. LJ is that back. A 2nd and 4th wouldn't be too much to ask for a premier back with a few good years left.

    The Packers wanted TGonz during the season and after watching him have another stellar year, might decide he's worth that 2nd round pick if they think he could put them over the top.

    The 49ers need a QB. They might be gun shy after the Alex Smith fiasco, but if Stafford falls to #3, they might get happy feet and jump up to get him if the Chiefs want to pass and offer the pick to 49ers.

    As far as the free agents go, the Ravens have Suggs, Scott, Lewis and Landry as free agents this year and can only use one franchise tag. If we sign their defensive coordinator to be our head coach, you have to think the Chiefs would have a good chance at getting Scott and Suggs.

    Vilma won't be re-signed and the Chiefs should sign this guy to complete their LB corp.

    Asomugha... probably won't happen. But hey, who knows.

    In conclusion, I don't think this defense is set in stone. Changing from a 4-3 to a 3-4 isn't as crazy of a notion as some people might think. We already have a bunch of holes to fill and if we could get good value from Hali and Dorsey, completing that defense wouldn't be impossible.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by texaschief View Post
    What if the Chiefs bring in Rex Ryan as the new Head Coach and Romeo Crennel as the new defensive coordinator? I realize this team is being built around a 4-3 defensive concept, but when you actually look at our personnel, other than perhaps Glenn Dorsey and Tamba Hali, we don't have players who absolutely don't fit that scheme. The new corners could handle a 3-4 just as well as they do the 4-3. Same for the safeties for that matter. Although, nobody is sure those safeties are the future for this franchise anyway. That leaves Tank and DJ. Tank can at least rotate on a 3-4 defensive line. He's a big body. DJ could play in a 3-4 just as well as he could a 4-3.

    So, let's say we make the switch. We keep all DBs, Tank, and DJ.

    That gives us Dorsey and Hali as trade bait. From the Dorsey trade, I want a 1st and 2nd from the Raiders. From the Hali trade, I want a 2nd and 3rd from Buffalo. Then, we could trade LJ for a 2nd and 4th to the Cardinals and T. Gonz for a 2nd from the Packers. Let's say the Chiefs could then trade down with the 49ers who desperately want a QB at the #3 spot. We fall to #10 and pick up their 2nd, 3rd and 2010 2nd round picks.

    With draft picks:
    #7 (Raiders)
    #10 (49ers)
    -
    #35
    #40 (Raiders)
    #41 (Packers)
    #42 (Buffalo)
    #43 (49ers)
    #52 (Cardinals)
    -
    #67
    #75 (Buffalo
    -
    4
    4
    -
    5
    6
    7

    So, we have 15 picks in the 2009 draft including 2 1st rounders and 6 2nd round picks. We'll have 3 Dline spots, 3 LB spots, and two Oline spots to fill thru the draft and free agency.

    If we have Ryan as the head coach, our chances of getting Bart Scott and Terrell Suggs dramatically increase. Add Vilma and Nnamdi Asomugha to those two in free agency and now, we have only one LB and two D-line spots to fill.

    Then, in the draft we COULD take:
    #7 (Raiders) Trade pick and #75 to Browns for #5. Draft LB Aaron Curry (Wake Forest)
    #10 (49ers) DE Brian Orakpo (Texas)
    -
    #35 Trade pick and #109 to Colts for #28 Select NT Terrence Cody (Alabama)
    #40 (Raiders) WR Percy Harvin (Florida)
    #41 (Packers) DE George Selvie (South Florida)
    #42 (Buffalo) C Jonathan Luigs (Arkansas)
    #43 (49ers) OT Phil Loadholt (Oklahoma)
    #52 (Cardinals) NT B.J. Raji (Boston College)
    -
    #67 ILB Darry Beckwith (LSU)

    In the new 3-4 defense, the roster fills out like this:

    DE- Brian Orakpo/George Selvie
    NT- Terrence Cody
    DE- Terrell Suggs
    OLB- Derrick Johnson
    ILB- Jonathan Vilma
    ILB- Bart Scott
    OLB- Aaron Curry
    CB- Brandon Flowers
    FS- Jarrad Page/ DaJuan Morgan
    SS- Bernard Pollard
    CB- Nnamdi Asomugha

    The offense would be bolstered as well:

    LT- Branden Albert
    LG- Brian Waters
    C- Jonathan Luigs
    RG- Rudy Niswanger
    RT- Phil Loadholt
    TE- Brad Cottam
    WR-Dwayne Bowe
    WR-Percy Harvin
    WR-Mark Bradley
    RB-Jamaal Charles
    QB-Tyler Thigpen


    Before you rip me apart with the pure impossibility of all of this happening, look at each move individually.

    The Raiders almost took Dorsey last year and it isn't out of the question to think they'd still want him more than whoever will be there at #7. Asking for a first and 2nd for Dorsey isn't too much for the #5 pick overall last year. The difference in point value from #7 to #5 is 200. Then add a year of experience and he's worth an additional 2nd rounder that has a 400pt value.

    The Bills are going to be looking for some pass rush in the draft. Tamba Hali isn't a dominant pass rusher, but he's young, has a great motor and is at least worth a 2nd and 3rd.

    The Cardinals aren't getting consistent performance from Edgerin James and ranked dead last in rushing this season. They desperately need a consistent RB that they could count on for a 1000 yards. LJ is that back. A 2nd and 4th wouldn't be too much to ask for a premier back with a few good years left.

    The Packers wanted TGonz during the season and after watching him have another stellar year, might decide he's worth that 2nd round pick if they think he could put them over the top.

    The 49ers need a QB. They might be gun shy after the Alex Smith fiasco, but if Stafford falls to #3, they might get happy feet and jump up to get him if the Chiefs want to pass and offer the pick to 49ers.

    As far as the free agents go, the Ravens have Suggs, Scott, Lewis and Landry as free agents this year and can only use one franchise tag. If we sign their defensive coordinator to be our head coach, you have to think the Chiefs would have a good chance at getting Scott and Suggs.

    Vilma won't be re-signed and the Chiefs should sign this guy to complete their LB corp.

    Asomugha... probably won't happen. But hey, who knows.

    In conclusion, I don't think this defense is set in stone. Changing from a 4-3 to a 3-4 isn't as crazy of a notion as some people might think. We already have a bunch of holes to fill and if we could get good value from Hali and Dorsey, completing that defense wouldn't be impossible.
    You yell at me for wanting to dump salary, and yet you're OK with a $20M cap hit for trading Dorsey?!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmlamerson View Post
    You yell at me for wanting to dump salary, and yet you're OK with a $20M cap hit for trading Dorsey?!
    Dorsey would be another $8mllion hit. not 20.

    Between trading LJ and Dorsey, they'd spend 16 million. Chiefs could still sign any free agents they'd want because they'd still have another 16 million at least, in cap room. Plus, they'd receive good value for getting rid of those guys. It's not like the Chiefs wouldn't get anything for those two players.

    YOU want to cut players, just to cut them and take the hit. I want to trade them for good value. Getting four picks for those two guys would be worth the 16 million. Cutting them does nothing for the team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texaschief View Post
    Dorsey would be another $8mllion hit. not 20.

    Between trading LJ and Dorsey, they'd spend 16 million. Chiefs could still sign any free agents they'd want because they'd still have another 16 million at least, in cap room. Plus, they'd receive good value for getting rid of those guys. It's not like the Chiefs wouldn't get anything for those two players.

    YOU want to cut players, just to cut them and take the hit. I want to trade them for good value. Getting four picks for those two guys would be worth the 16 million. Cutting them does nothing for the team.
    No, Dorsey got a $24M signing bonus. That gives us a cap hit of about $20M if we cut him or trade him this offseason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmlamerson View Post
    No, Dorsey got a $24M signing bonus. That gives us a cap hit of about $20M if we cut him or trade him this offseason.
    No, the cap hit would be one year's portion of that $24 million signing bonus. So, actually, it'd be a $4.8 million cap hit. Now, if we cut him, he'd be owed all $20 million. Trades and cuts work differently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texaschief View Post
    No, the cap hit would be one year's portion of that $24 million signing bonus. So, actually, it'd be a $4.8 million cap hit. Now, if we cut him, he'd be owed all $20 million. Trades and cuts work differently.
    No. If a player's contract includes a signing bonus, the signing team will have to account for 100% of that signing bonus at some point. The signing bonus is initially split over the length of the contract equally. If the player is waived before the artificial June 1st date, the full signing bonus balance will be accelerated in an immediate cap it. If the player is waived/traded after June 1st and before the season starts, then the remainder of his signing bonus can be split into 2 seasons (1/2 now, and 1/2 next year).

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmlamerson View Post
    No. If a player's contract includes a signing bonus, the signing team will have to account for 100% of that signing bonus at some point. The signing bonus is initially split over the length of the contract equally. If the player is waived before the artificial June 1st date, the full signing bonus balance will be accelerated in an immediate cap it. If the player is waived/traded after June 1st and before the season starts, then the remainder of his signing bonus can be split into 2 seasons (1/2 now, and 1/2 next year).
    Well, then obviously, if that's true, then we can't trade him. I don't think that's the case though. This whole scenario is way off the deep end anyway and I'm really not going to argue over it. lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by texaschief View Post
    Well, then obviously, if that's true, then we can't trade him. I don't think that's the case though. This whole scenario is way off the deep end anyway and I'm really not going to argue over it. lol
    True. I wasn't trying to argue. I was just surprised after we had the discussion over salary caps.

    I do think that Ryan and Crennel aren't terrible choices, and I like the 3-4. You are correct that we would massively have to work over the roster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmlamerson View Post
    True. I wasn't trying to argue. I was just surprised after we had the discussion over salary caps.

    I do think that Ryan and Crennel aren't terrible choices, and I like the 3-4. You are correct that we would massively have to work over the roster.
    My point was that outside Dorsey and Hali, we wouldn't really have to do too much more than we already have to. Since apparently Cunningham is already out, if there were every a year to backup and commit to a different defense, it would be this year. Hali wouldn't be the best DE in a 4-3 and Dorsey would be too small in a 3-4. I doubt he'd be able to pull off the NT position.

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    i like your idea texas chiefs...you definitely have a point...we need a major change on defense! Was it you that said that espn said that gunther and the whole defensive coaching would be fired? i thought i saw that in a post by your earlier but wasn't sure?

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