Thigpen: One Season Wonder?

[D.A.S.]

Maybe he is and maybe he ain't. I think we should take a QB with the first pick because it ain't worth the risk. We've seen this before and if he is we have another Huard situation on our hands and we need to prevent that. I still like Croyle but I know most of you won't like to hear that if Thigpen is a one season wonder than Croyle becomes the starter next year. Is that really what you want? Worst case scenario, Thigpen works out and we have a backup who is good (and with how much he runs the ball he'll get hurt sooner or later) or a player we can trade for a high pick or a good player from another team after it becomes aparent we don't need him.

[Chief Tyler]

You're seriously making this argument? Who, exactly, do you think is a franchise QB in this draft? Stafford/Bradford are the next Carr/Harrington, Tim Coach/Akili Smith, JaMarcus Russell/Brady Quinn, Vince Young/Matt Leinert. Every draft could be second guessed. For each of the franchise QBs you listed above, there a five busts. And none of the QBs listed above ever did anything without sterling supporting casts.

The Chiefs, in hindsight, look like morons for passing on Clady or Flacco at the 5-spot instead of Dorsey. Bad picks are made. But drafting a rookie QB and throwing him to the wolves is only going to slow this team's progress. If Thigpen turns out to be a loser in 2009, there are actually good QBs coming out in 2010.

I don't know whether Thigpen is good enough to win a SB. Neither do you. He won as many games this year as any QB could have, given our OL and defense. He was a bright spot in a miserable year.

To be fair I think the organization would have looked like morons had they taken somebody like Flacco over Dorsey. You said that no great QB would have done what they have done without a supporting cast, so I would assume that trend would hold true with the big rookies this season. They were drafted into the right organization at the right time. Maybe future hindsight might alter our opinions yet again about this draft. Dorsey has yet to develop, we have yet to see what Cottam can do, Albert and Charles have shown a lot of promise over the season and our backs look as solid as any team given how much they're on the field.


---------------Second half not directed at any person in particular.


And I don't know how people can call Thigpen a bust in an NFL offense without giving him the proper setting to try first. Our line was in shambles, Gaily gave us a chance to win games by adapting the offense to our strengths. For most of the season those strenghts didn't include a probowl line and a pound it in your face running game that can pick up 10 yards any given possesion. I'm not sure what people are trying to take away from his performance this season. He's proven to be a running threat, and with time a much better passing threat (as if 21 and 12 wasn't stellar enough from what is essentially a rookie season). I've heard too often that he targets Gonzo too much and it's easy for defenses to know where he's going. Correct me if I'm mistaken but I believe Bowe had over one thousand yards this season and something like 85 catches. Who else is he going to look to when our number two receiver was taken off of waivers partway through the season (and what a catch he's been). I've seen a few people say he is too small. So what? Some of the franchise QB's you have have mentioned have been on the small side. Montana is 6'2, as is Favre and Young. Starr, Unitas and Namath were smaller than that. Hell, our very own Len Dawson was barely six foot.

[m0ef0e]

When Thigpen becomes the loser he was born to be, and we know he is because he can't play in an NFL offense, we have to mock a college offense just so he can play, and there's a reason NFL teams don't use college offenses, then you'll all look at the QB we passed up and complain about how stupid the Chiefs were. I remember listening to how Ryan and Flacco would never be franchise QBs or maybe not even starters. How they were a watse of a draft pick. Let's face the music, if you have a great QB you are a great team year after year, Marino, Manning, Elway, Montana, Young, Aikman, and on and on. When you don't you are never a consitently good team. Thigpen is NOT that QB and with how bad our enire team is the only way to turn it around quickly is to get a competant QB who can play in an NFL offense.

You really think that Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco are so good that they carried their teams into the playoffs?

Quite the contrary. While they played well in their rookie seasons, much or most of their success can be credited to the rest of the team. Both were solid all season but neither guy had eye-popping numbers.

It's no secret that Flacco and the Ravens are where they are today because of their defense. Granted, Flacco did help that defense and that team get to the next level because he is not a TOTAL screw-up like Kyle Boller or a 400-year-old Steve Mcnair. Even the most flawed of diamonds will shine compared to a piece of coal. Flacco and Ryan both don't HAVE to be the next Montana, Elway, etc. All they have to do is not screw up horribly.

Great QB does not always equal great team, either. Kerry Collins has been to more superbowls than Dan Marino. Besides, anybody who even halfway watches football can take any of the great QB's from your list there and name several other key players/coaches that contributed to said team's successful era right off the top of their heads.

Just for comparison, though, let's look at how some of these guys did in their first year with significant playing time.

Marino - Did very well. 7 wins his first year (went on to break records in a 14-win season the following year).

Manning - 3 wins (13 wins the following season).

Elway - 9 wins.

Montana - 2 wins (played all 16 games).

Young - 6 wins (1991 season when Joe Montana was hurt, Young also missed some of the season due to injury).

Aikman - Finished 1989 with an 0-11 record as a starter, completing 155 of 293 passes for 1,749 yards, 9 TDs, 18 INTs.

So, of the guys listed, only half started their career with a winning record.

Don't be so quick to label Thig. By that reasoning, Manning, Montana, and Aikman were all wastes of space and should have been replaced by a #1 pick following their first season.

[jmlamerson]

To be fair I think the organization would have looked like morons had they taken somebody like Flacco over Dorsey. You said that no great QB would have done what they have done without a supporting cast, so I would assume that trend would hold true with the big rookies this season. They were drafted into the right organization at the right time. Maybe future hindsight might alter our opinions yet again about this draft. Dorsey has yet to develop, we have yet to see what Cottam can do, Albert and Charles have shown a lot of promise over the season and our backs look as solid as any team given how much they're on the field.

True. My point was that many picks, in retrospect, could have been better. Many teams regret not getting Ryan and Flacco in 2008. Just as many are thankful they didn't pick Ryan Leaf or Tim Couch. That doesn't mean you reach for a QB this draft as some sort of panecea for all of our ills.

[Seek]

So now we're going to break it down into how many games Thigpen single handedly lost? Ok- well how about the games lost by everyone else, then? Because if we're going to complain about 2 games lost by Thigpen, how about the 8 or 9 lost by the defense, and the one that Connor Barth lost?

It's impossible to say that Thigpen is a one season anything without having multiple seasons to judge that. Let's get a few more weapons around him, and get him the O-line that will not only protect him, but also give him a running game that will take heat off the passing game.

Let's get him a defense that will not make every game a high-scoring shoot out by failing to stop anyone.

When you have games with your "feature" running back gaining 2 yards, 8 yards, 10 yards, that's not helping anything.

Offensive line, defensive line, then linebackers.

The dead horse is now so beaten, it is unrecognizable.

jb

Please read my post again. You are basically agreeing with my post. I basically said there is only two games you can give any fault to Thigpen over. If it wasn't for Thigpen, the Chiefs looked like one of the worste teams in the NFL. There is much bigger issued to fix other than Thigpen.

[kcmostwanted]

Well w/ all this debating going on you guys better hope that Sam Bradford stays in College.... I think if he does that, that'll make the decision that much easier for the Chiefs....

I mean the only legit QB coming out right now is Matthew Stafford (and I question whether he should even be a top 10 draft pick).
I know that Nate Davis looked awful in his bowl game but he's a guy that I really like coming out of the MAC. Maybe we can spend a 3rd round pick on someone like that.

Ultimately we need to sign FA's for at least 2 of the 3 positions in the offseason: tackle / DE / or LB.

[jerhart]

Give it up already about gettin a new QB! Thigpen may not be the future of our organization...but he is not going to wreck our team. He was the one bright spot on our season this year. And remember...you are judging Thigpen under Herm's coaching...who is the worst at clock management. Who know's what Thigpen could do under a REAL coach. QB IS NOT PRIORITY.


Answer me this...what do all these guys have in common?

Akili Smith
Tim Couch
Cade Mcnown
Heath Shuler
Ryan Leaf
Chris Weinke
Tommy Maddux
Dave Brown
Jim Druckenmiller
Rick Mirer
Art Schlichter
Kelly Stouffe
Andre Ware
Rich Campbell
David Klingler
Todd Marinovich
Dan McGwire
Rick Mirer

...do you really feel comfortable in all our other skilled positions to GAMBLE a 1st round pick on a QB?

[debearzz]

The big difference between a one season wonder and a legit starter is the learning curve. In watching each of Thigpen's games, I would say he usually adjusted well and made starter moves, like throwing the ball away when he didn't have an outlet. And yes, he did make rookie mistakes, but, amazingly, he basically is a rookie after being a 3rd string, 7th round pick at QB.

The most impressive thing I saw from him was leading the team down the field on a last minute drive from San Diego to set up a makeable field goal. That is the hardest thing to do for a quarterback, and he handled the pressure well.

[slimdagreat]

The last thing we need to do is draft a QB with our 1st rouder. We have so many other holes, especially up front that we need to address first, and Thigpen even if he is a bust (which I don't think he is) is a nice stop gap.

I don't think Thigpen is the long term solution by any stretch, but if we can get Andre Smith, Aaron Curry, or Brian Orakpo we should take them 1st.

[jmlamerson]

The last thing we need to do is draft a QB with our 1st rouder. We have so many other holes, especially up front that we need to address first, and Thigpen even if he is a bust (which I don't think he is) is a nice stop gap.

I don't think Thigpen is the long term solution by any stretch, but if we can get Andre Smith, Aaron Curry, or Brian Orakpo we should take them 1st.

Agreed, except for Orakpo. Our DL is small enough. We need someone with heft on the line next year.

[slimdagreat]

Agreed, except for Orakpo. Our DL is small enough. We need someone with heft on the line next year.

@ 6'4 260 he's almost the same size as Jared Allen.

What they need is the ability to get to the QB, and stop the run. that won't get done until they get a pass rushing DE, and LBs that can actually tackle.