Defensive Coordinator

[prough91]

Personally, I think its pretty close to a given that Haley will be our new HC. Who would everyone like to see as our defensive coordinator. I was thinking about how someone (can't remember who) said they saw Dennis Green in town. I think that would be a good choice.

[honda522]

Crennel was not a great HC, but he had very good seasons as a DC for New England. This thread is talking about whom we would like as our defensive coordinator.

In fact, Crennel won three Super Bowls in four seasons as the defensive coordinator of the New England Patriots. Crennel has participated in six Super Bowls, winning five of them during his coaching career. In case you are counting, that is 4 more Super Bowls than the Chiefs Organzation has won in its history. Remember that "Greatest Show on Turf"....Crennel slowed it down in the Super Bowl and NE shocked the HEAVILY favored Rams.

You show me a DC that has better credentials than him that is still available and I will be all ears. Until then, I'll take him over any other name that I've heard floated around. The Chiefs would be extremely lucky to get him. And with his ties to Pioli, I think we have a good chance.

Then why was Cleavland's defense mediocre?

[jmlamerson]

Then why was Cleavland's defense mediocre?

Because it takes a season or three for a 3-4 defense to come together. Cleveland never had the personnel to run the 3-4, and their run defense stunk due to their ancient/useless LB corps and bad DEs.

Don't make a mistake, if we get Crennel and switch to a 3-4, we're going to have 2 or 3 bad defensive seasons while we aqcuire personnel and get them used to playing togather.

[jmlamerson]

I went back to look at some stats on the Pats defense while Crennel was there.

2001 - 20th ranked
2002 - 24th ranked
2003 - 7th ranked
2004 - 9th ranked

Kind of annoying that it took him 2 years to get the defense to anything less than crap, but at least they did turn out pretty good in the end.

I have to really disagree with jlamerson about DJ. I have my doubts about Dorsey being able to play any position in a 3-4, but I think DJ is skilled, athletic, and smart enough to fit in any scheme. He gets overlooked playing in such a horrid defense, but ESPN actually ranked him as the 18th best linebacker in the NFL heading into this season. I was really impressed with his tackling towards the end of the season too.

I'm not against DJ - I just have severe doubts as to whether he has the toughness and strength to be a good LB in a 3-4. DJ's big advantages are his speed and athleticism, and they just aren't as important to a 3-4 LB as they are a 4-3 LB.

I know DJ was (easily) our best front seven player this year, but he only had 69 tackles and 1.5 sacks. I'm not even close to sold on him. He's always showed more promise than production.

[N TX Dave]

I went back to look at some stats on the Pats defense while Crennel was there.

2001 - 20th ranked
2002 - 24th ranked
2003 - 7th ranked
2004 - 9th ranked

Kind of annoying that it took him 2 years to get the defense to anything less than crap, but at least they did turn out pretty good in the end.

I have to really disagree with jlamerson about DJ. I have my doubts about Dorsey being able to play any position in a 3-4, but I think DJ is skilled, athletic, and smart enough to fit in any scheme. He gets overlooked playing in such a horrid defense, but ESPN actually ranked him as the 18th best linebacker in the NFL heading into this season. I was really impressed with his tackling towards the end of the season too.

Two years is really too long to turn around a defense? The first year to figure out who were players and who were not and a year to get everyone on the same page.

I don't care who the Chiefs DC is if he had the defense in the top ten in after two seasons I would be happy.

[Coach]

I agree. But if that happens, everyone be prepared to watch our entire defense get gutted as we move to a 3-4. You remaining fans of DJ, Dorsey, Tank, Turk, Hali, Page, etc. (i.e. everyone not named Pollard, Carr, Leggett, and Flowers) will have to watch as these guys are cut or replaced. These guys are barely big enough to play in a 4-3 - there's no way they can play in a 3-4.

EDIT: And don't be shocked if we reach for Raji at 3 to be our NT either.

I agree there will be some signicant cuts if we move to a 3-4. I'm not sure that is a bad thing though. Dorsey looks to be the biggest victim of that. Do you think Dorsey could be traded?

I also agree that if we move to a 3-4, Raji will be a hard guy to pass up. He dominated everyone at the Senior Bowl except for Alex Mack.

http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2009DT.php

[yashi]

I agree there will be some signicant cuts if we move to a 3-4. I'm not sure that is a bad thing though. Dorsey looks to be the biggest victim of that. Do you think Dorsey could be traded?

I also agree that if we move to a 3-4, Raji will be a hard guy to pass up. He dominated everyone at the Senior Bowl except for Alex Mack.

WalterFootball.com: 2009 NFL Draft: Defensive Tackle Rankings

Todd McShay even went so far as to say that he was the best player at the Senior Bowl, regardless of position.

I really would hate to trade Dorsey.. he had a bad year, but I still think he's going to be a very good DT. If the opportunity to gain another 1st round pick for him presented itself we would have to take it though.. if we switch to a 3-4 that is.

[jmlamerson]

I agree there will be some signicant cuts if we move to a 3-4. I'm not sure that is a bad thing though. Dorsey looks to be the biggest victim of that. Do you think Dorsey could be traded?

I also agree that if we move to a 3-4, Raji will be a hard guy to pass up. He dominated everyone at the Senior Bowl except for Alex Mack.

http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2009DT.php

Trading Dorsey's pretty impossible because of the resulting $20M cap hit, which is massive, even if spread over two years. And that's besides the fact that his value is very low (maybe a 3rd rounder) right now due to a way below expectations rookie year. Dorsey may actually have value to us as a DE in a 3-4, either as a starter or reserve. There are 3-4 DEs who are bigger than him (Aaron Smith, Ty Warren, etc.).

It's hard (but fun) to decide what to do in the draft right now because we haven't gone trough FA yet. Frankly, given the probably immense overhaul needed if we go to a 3-4, I'm the slightest bit worried that our OL will be left in the cold again this draft.

[theaxeeffect4311]

Trading Dorsey's pretty impossible because of the resulting $20M cap hit, which is massive, even if spread over two years. And that's besides the fact that his value is very low (maybe a 3rd rounder) right now due to a way below expectations rookie year. Dorsey may actually have value to us as a DE in a 3-4, either as a starter or reserve. There are 3-4 DEs who are bigger than him (Aaron Smith, Ty Warren, etc.).

It's hard (but fun) to decide what to do in the draft right now because we haven't gone trough FA yet. Frankly, given the probably immense overhaul needed if we go to a 3-4, I'm the slightest bit worried that our OL will be left in the cold again this draft.

It is still hard to say that we will change to a 3-4. I know Pioli was part of a Patriots team that had good success in a 3-4, but that is not the only type of defense that works. With the personnel we have, I have to think that Pioli will choose a DC who will run a 4-3. We are only a few players short of having a good 4-3 defense. Bring in a guy like Leslie Frazier who worked under guys like Jim Johnson, Tony Dungy, and Marvin Lewis.

Pioli has a big decision here, but if he does decide to go to a 3-4, that will put our defense back a year.

[jmlamerson]

It is still hard to say that we will change to a 3-4. I know Pioli was part of a Patriots team that had good success in a 3-4, but that is not the only type of defense that works. With the personnel we have, I have to think that Pioli will choose a DC who will run a 4-3. We are only a few players short of having a good 4-3 defense. Bring in a guy like Leslie Frazier who worked under guys like Jim Johnson, Tony Dungy, and Marvin Lewis.

Pioli has a big decision here, but if he does decide to go to a 3-4, that will put our defense back a year.

Not to sound too negative, but we're not really a couple players away, even in the 4-3. At the very least, we need a new RDT, RDE, MLB, ROLB, and FS. That doesn't even factor in question marks like Hali and Dorsey, or underachievers like DJ. It'll be at least two years before we're a top-15 defense.

I think Pioli will hire his HC and let his HC decide the new DC. My gut says we move to the 3-4 either this season or next.

And I agree, we're nuts if we don't interview Frazier.

[theaxeeffect4311]

Not to sound too negative, but we're not really a couple players away, even in the 4-3. At the very least, we need a new RDT, RDE, MLB, ROLB, and FS. That doesn't even factor in question marks like Hali and Dorsey, or underachievers like DJ. It'll be at least two years before we're a top-15 defense.

I think Pioli will hire his HC and let his HC decide the new DC. My gut says we move to the 3-4 either this season or next.

And I agree, we're nuts if we don't interview Frazier.

That isn't that bad. Looking into next season, I think the positions on defense that will be taken care of will be RDE, MLB, and ROLB. We can get by with guys like Page and Tyler. We may not by a top 15 defense, but just fixing those three positions will change the way our defense looks. I'm not about rankings as long as we win some games.

And who remembers how our defense ranked in 2007 with Jared Allen?