Current Roster Evaluation

[texaschief]

I've seen a lot of posts stating vast overreactions to the state of the current roster. I've seen posts that state we need 3 new O-linemen, that we need 3 new WRs, and that we need 2 new safeties to go along with 2 or 3 new LBs, 2 new DTs and a new CB, a new RB and a new QB.

SO, basically, we don't have a SINGLE good player on this team. I think otherwise. So, I'm going to run down the roster and try to identify who stays, who goes and who currently on the roster can either keep their starting roles or step into a starting role. After this exercise and ensuing discussion, we should have a BETTER idea as to what positions ACTUALLY have to be filled thru free agency and the draft.

Let's start with the offense.

WR- Dwayne Bowe, Mark Bradley, Will Franklin, and Kevin Robinson

Dwayne Bowe is a legitimate #1 WR in the making and shouldn't be looked at as someone who needs to be replaced. He could very well turn into a #2 WR if the Chiefs get Boldin or Crabtree or Houshmandzadeh, but the Chiefs don't HAVE to go out and find that #1 WR. They would probably better served by finding a less expensive #2 WR. Mark Bradley was the #2 last season and he impressed a lot of people but he fell off dramatically during the second half of the season and could serve as a good #3 in the future. Will Franklin and Kevin Robinson still need time to develop as most late round WRs do and it's probably too soon to tell what they're going to become.

RB- Larry Johnson, Jamaal Charles, Kolby Smith, Jackie Battle

Who knows what the hell is going on with LJ. He's still talented enough to be a great back for a couple more seasons and would probably be more valuable to the team if the Chiefs kept him instead of trying to trade him. All the reasons we want to get rid of him are all the reasons why teams won't give us fair value in a trade. He serves the team better staying as the featured back. Jamaal Charles probably solidified his position as the 3rd down back and #2 back. Kolby Smith will serve this team well as the #3 back if one of the first two were to get hurt. Jackie Battle is probably going to find himself stuck on special teams or the practice squad.

TE- Tony Gonzalez, Brad Cottam, Michael Merritt, Jed Collins

Tony is staying. Again, his value to the team is more as a player than a trade chip. Chances are, he at the very least puts up an average Tony Gonzalez year. Brad Cottam gets another year to learn from TG before becoming the future at that position. The Chiefs are set at TE for the foreseeable future. Michael Merritt probably cost himself a roster spot "over a little weed." So look for the Chiefs to grab another TE at somepoint during the off season. I know NOTHING about Jed Collins. Perhaps he can step into Merritt's role on the team.

LT- Branden Albert, Herb Taylor, Andrew Carnahan

Branden Albert played beyond expectations for a rookie who missed the entire preseason. He has the talent to be the franchise's LT for the next decade or so. However, his versatility and college background gives the Chiefs to option to move him inside or to the other OT position and draft the best available LT at #3. Herb Taylor did enough during his time on the line this season to warrant a look at a starting spot somewhere on the line. I know nothing about Carnahan.

LG- Brian Waters, Wade Smith

Brian Waters is a Pro Bowl OG and will be back for at least another season and possibly two. The Chiefs should find a LG for the future at some point this off season or next. Wade Smith is a good backup guard and should have a roster spot locked down.

C- Rudy Niswanger, Wade Smith

Rudy Niswanger is too big for the C position. This position IS one of the positions on the line that should be upgraded this season. I'd expect the Chiefs to draft or sign a new Center. Wade Smith would probably lose his job as backup to Niswanger.

RG- Adrian Jones, Wade Smith, Tavares Washington

Another position that will change next season. Although, the replacement might be found on the current roster. I'd actually expect Niswanger to take a step to his right and fill this position. His size, build, and talent could be perfect for the guard spot. Wade Smith is a good backup and Washington is probably a non-factor.

RT- Damion McIntosh, Herb Taylor, Barry Richardson

This could actually be one of the deeper positions on the line. McIntosh really came on toward the end of the season and COULD keep his spot. Herb Talyor is knocking on the door and could push for a starting position. Barry Richardson was drafted last season with the thought in mind that HE could be the future at that position. Then, depending on what they want to do with Albert, HE could be at this spot to start the season. I'm not sure the Chiefs will be looking to bring in another player to compete here.

QB- Tyler Thigpen, Quinn Gray, Brodie Croyle, Damon Huard

Your guess is as good as mine here. If Pioli is as good of a talent evaluator as everyone says he is, he'll see that the value we'd have to give up for Cassel isn't nearly worth the difference between he and Thigpen. I doubt the Chiefs trade a pair of firsts for Cassel. Gray was a good back up and should be retained. Croyle would be a cheap, young and talented 3rd QB if no other QB were brought in to compete. Damon Huard probably doesn't have a spot next season.

Defense

LE- Tamba Hali, Wallace Gilberry, Turk McBride

Tamba Hali plays good at LE. I doubt they'll look to replace him. I can't see Turk McBride staying on the team. He just hasn't done enough. I know nothing about Gilberry.

LT- Tank Tyler, Alfonso Boone

Tank is developing nicely and I think the Chiefs got a steal in the 3rd, drafting this guy. Alfonso Boone is a good rotational player and he'll have a roster spot.

RT- Glenn Dorsey Ron Edwards, Derek Lokey

Everyone is freaking out about Dorsey and worrying that he could be Ryan Sims part Deux. That's not the case. Dorsey is going to be a great DT. The problem with him and Tyler going forward is that the Chiefs may not keep the 4-3 and that might spell doom for both players. Edwards is a good rotational player and should have a roster spot next season. I don't know much about Lokey other than he was above average at Texas.

RE- Jason Babin, Andy Studebaker, Brian Johnston

Jason Babin really surprised some people last season and may have won a roster spot going into next season. Although, I seriously doubt he'll be looked at as THE starting LDE. I don't know enough about Studebaker and Johnston to be able to give an informed opinion.

LOLB- Demarrio Williams, Curtis Gatewood

Williams needs to be a backup and the Chiefs need to fill their linebacking positions through free agency.

MLB- Pat Thomas Weston Dacus

See above

ROLB- Derrick Johnson

Johnson is the only good LB the Chiefs have on their team. Since being drafted 15th overall, he has underachieved. This season is going to be a huge year for him as it pertains to his future as a Chief.

LCB- Brandon Carr, Pat Surtain, Maurice Leggett

Brandon Carr and Maurice Leggett did enough last season to be considered for a starting position next season. Look for Pat Surtain to be released.

RCB- Brandon Flowers

Starter.... for a WHILE

SS- Bernard Pollard, DaJuan Morgan

Personally, I like Pollard. His mistakes seem to be basic. If he can figure out how to wrap up, I think we've got a SS for a long time.

FS- Jarrad Page, DaJuan Morgan, Jon McGraw

I wouldn't be surprised to see Page come back. But, I also wouldn't be surprised to see Morgan become the new FS.


The way I see it, the Chiefs NEED only a few players from free agency and the draft, while any other players they bring in would be considered upgrades and would render the players they replace as depth... WHICH IS A GOOD THING!!

This is how I see the roster:

FA/D= Free Agent/Draft

Offense
QB- Thigpen
RB- Johnson
TE- Gonzalez
WR- Bowe, FA/D, Bradley
LT-Albert or D
LG-Waters
C-FA/D
RG-Niswanger/Albert
RT-Taylor/Albert/McIntosh

Defense
LDE-Tamba Hali/Jason Babin
LT-Tyler
RT-Dorsey
RDE-FA/D
ROLB-FA/D
MLB-FA/D
LOLB-Johnson
LCB-Carr/Leggett/FA/D
RCB-Flowers/FA/D
SS-Pollard
FS-Morgan

So, as far as in players the Chiefs NEED to bring in, they really just NEED five players to complete the starting squad (excluding depth). We need a RDE, ROLB, MLB, #2 WR and a Center. The rest of the team CAN be filled through players already on the team.

[okikcfan]

ok. here's MY question. Yes we have Thigpen, but he hasn't proven to be a winning QB and he ran the spread last year. Yes, we have Cassel. But, he TOO ran the spread last season and is only signed for ONE season.

If Stafford falls to #3, wouldn't he present the GREATEST value at #3 if the two best LT's are off the board at that point?

It seems like the Chiefs could take Stafford and flip Cassel to the Vikings for their 1st or 2nd/3rd. I know Pioli likes Cassel and all, but I think this would be a great trade for the Chiefs. We would have our franchise QB AND the ability to take a OLB/DE or MLB later in the first.

I still think taking a QB at #3 is an enormous risk and probably shouldn't be done, but if the two best LT's are off the board, Stafford HAS to represent the best value for the pick. LIke I've said before, no non-rushing LB is worth the #3 pick. So, take him away, and who else would be worth that pick? Raji? eh. I just think we could get some GREAT picks for Cassel and probably the best value at #3 is we took this route.

IMO I think any QB in this years draft is a big risk, none of them were really Great. Cassell has a 1 year contract to make it or break it and I do wish him well!

[AussieChiefsFan]

IMO I think any QB in this years draft is a big risk, none of them were really Great. Cassell has a 1 year contract to make it or break it and I do wish him well!

Yeah, I hope he can become the chiefs starter Qb for a long time!

[jamesald]

With the switch to the 3-4 defense, the defensive line needs an overhaul. Dorsey, Mcbride, Tyler, and Hali don't seem to fit. None of the defensive tackles are capable of playing end or nose tackle in the 3-4. Hali might not be big enough to play end, but I know he wouldn't be able to make the transition to play LB. The offense is looking very promising if they address right tackle, center, and overall depth of the line.

Regardless of LJ's situation, I think the chiefs need to draft a RB, but not until the 3rd or 4th round. WR and TE are solid if Gonzalez stays and I truly believe Cassel is going to be a good QB because Haley's scheme was very similar to New England's.

[texaschief]

With the switch to the 3-4 defense, the defensive line needs an overhaul. Dorsey, Mcbride, Tyler, and Hali don't seem to fit. None of the defensive tackles are capable of playing end or nose tackle in the 3-4. Hali might not be big enough to play end, but I know he wouldn't be able to make the transition to play LB. The offense is looking very promising if they address right tackle, center, and overall depth of the line.

Regardless of LJ's situation, I think the chiefs need to draft a RB, but not until the 3rd or 4th round. WR and TE are solid if Gonzalez stays and I truly believe Cassel is going to be a good QB because Haley's scheme was very similar to New England's.

Tank Tyler played NT in college. He lost weight to make the transition to a 3 technique. He was the strongest player in his class and could EASILY make the transition back to NT.

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2009/4...s-the-chiefs-3

"Over the past couple of weeks I've heard from more than a few people that the Kansas City Chiefs are likely to pencil in Tank Tyler as the starting nose tackle over the center in their 3-4 defense. Nothing has been confirmed at this point (and likely won't be until the preseason starts) but after a bit more research on DeMarcus "Tank" Tyler, it's becoming increasingly obvious that this would be a good move for the Chiefs.

Tyler played the nose tackle at North Carolina State alongside an all star list of college teammates drafted in 2006 - Mario Williams (#1 overall), Manny Lawson (22nd overall) and John McCargo (26th overall) - and not surprisingly he excelled around those teammates (including two others drafted in 2006).

What's even more impressive is that Tyler actually improved after those players left for the NFL. He performed well with that talent around him and improved when that talent left.

With the talent around him - 41 tackles (4.5 for loss), 2 sacks
Without the talent around him - 49 tackles (8.5 for loss), 3 sacks
Tyler was actually around 323 pounds his senior year at NC State but dropped weight leading up to the Senior Bowl to showcase his agility and quickness. Prior to the draft, he said several 3-4 teams were showing interest in him.

He said he felt comfortable playing in either a 3-4 or a 4-3 front, and believed he could excel either at the nose or in the three-technique spot. It’s telling, however, that he said he "likes" to play nose tackle; many players favor the potentially more glamorous three-technique spot and its emphasis on speed and backfield penetration. Clearly, Tyler understands that many teams see the value in an immense and immensely strong man clogging up the running lanes and occupying multiple blockers in the trenches.

Assuming Tyler is capable of packing the pounds back on to put him at the weight that allowed him to be the strongest player at the NFL Combine in 2007, it's becoming clear why rumors are flying that he's going to be the Chiefs starting nose tackle when and if they unveil their new 3-4 defense in September.

I want to stress that these are just unsubstantiated rumors at this point but Tank Tyler is an intriguing candidate to be the muscle behind the Chiefs defensive line in 2009."

Turk was a tweener in the 4-3. Tweeners make decent to good DE's in the 3-4. I think Hali may benefit from the transition as well.

The only person I'm worried about is Dorsey. I wonder what we could get from the Falcons if we traded them TG AND Dorsey. I've heard it would be a big cap hit, but I don't think that's true. There are already rumors out there that the Chiefs could be shopping Dorsey because he doesn't fit.

"Dorsey, Waters could be Trade Bait...The Kansas City Chiefs could use Defensive tackle Glenn Dorsey and Guard Brian Waters as trade bait in the weeks leading up to the draft, or on draft day itself. Dorsey, the Chiefs first-round pick in 2008, isn't an ideal fit for the Cheifs new 3-4 scheme, and Waters is seeking a trade out of Kansas City. The Chiefs have just one pick within the top 66 picks in the draft, which isn't enough for Scott Pioli and his rebuilding plans for the team. The Chiefs will know by draft day if Dorsey is in their plans, since the Chiefs have a voluntary minicamp scheduled for April 17-19, which is just days before the Draft." -Al Fronczak


I'd take their first (24), second (55), and ILB Curtis Lofton. Lofton was a 2nd round pick last year and it would essentially give us our 3rd, 2nd round pick of the season. Some may say that's a little steep for the Falcons, but there's no way they would've been able to trade a first and second rounder for Dorsey last April, sitting where they are now. The 24th pick and Lofton seems more than fair the 5th pick in the draft last season. I might even ask for a 4th or 5th as a throw-in for TG.

At #3, I'd draft Sanchez if the Lions take Stafford. This would buy me more time to trade him/Cassel (whichever is deemed least) to the highest bidder (Denver). I'll take their 12th and 18th picks for Sanchez, thank you.

At #12, I'll take CB Malcom Jenkins
At #18, I'll take ILB Rey Maualuga
At #24, I'll take DE Tyson Jackson
At #55, I'll take OL Duke Robinson
At #67, I'll take RB LeSean McCoy
At #102, I'll take C Antoine Caldwell
At #139, I'll take DT Roy Miller
At #175, I'll take CB/KR Joe Burnett

LT Branden Albert
LG Brian Waters/Duke Robinson
C Antoine Caldwell/Mike Goff
RG Mike Goff/Duke Robinson
RT Herb Taylor
TE Brad Cottam
WR Dwayne Bowe
WR Bobby Engram
WR Mark Bradley
QB Matt Cassel
RB Larry Johnson
RB Jamaal Charles


NT Tank Tyler
DE Tyson Jackson
DE Tamba Hali
ILB Rey Maualuga
ILB Curtis Lofton
OLB Derrick Johnson
OLB Mike Vrabel
CB Malcom Jenkins
CB Brandon Flowers
FS DaJuan Morgan
SS Bernard Pollard



Have fun with it.

[jmlamerson]

The only person I'm worried about is Dorsey. I wonder what we could get from the Falcons if we traded them TG AND Dorsey. I've heard it would be a big cap hit, but I don't think that's true

It is true. We take a $20M cap hit if we trade/cut Dorsey. We're not trading/cutting Dorsey.

[yashi]

<-- Huge Post -->

I guess I disagree on many levels here, but fun to read regardless.

I'm probably in the minority, but I deal Tony G to Atlanta for the #55.

If Tank can play at 323 lbs, then I'd be happy to give him a shot at the NT position. But I still draft one regardless, as insurance.

I cut LJ.

Draft
1.) Aaron Curry
2.) Duke Robinson
3.) Rashad Jennings
4.) Sammie Lee Hill
5.) T.J. Lang
6.) Ra'shon Harris
7.) Backup
7.) Backup

DE - Dorsey
NT - Tank/Hill
DE - Harris
OLB - Curry
ILB - Johnson
ILB - Thomas
OLB - Vrabel
CB - Flowers
CB - Carr
FS - Morgan
SS - Pollard

QB - Cassel
RB - Jennings/Charles
FB - Cox
WR - Bowe
WR - Engram
TE - Cottam
LT - Albert
LG - Waters
C - Goff
RG - Robinson
RT - Lang

[jmlamerson]

I guess I disagree on many levels here, but fun to read regardless.

I'm probably in the minority, but I deal Tony G to Atlanta for the #55.

If Tank can play at 323 lbs, then I'd be happy to give him a shot at the NT position. But I still draft one regardless, as insurance.

I cut LJ.

Draft
1.) Aaron Curry
2.) Duke Robinson
3.) Rashad Jennings
4.) Sammie Lee Hill
5.) T.J. Lang
6.) Ra'shon Harris
7.) Backup
7.) Backup

DE - Dorsey
NT - Tank/Hill
DE - Harris
OLB - Curry
ILB - Johnson
ILB - Thomas
OLB - Vrabel
CB - Flowers
CB - Carr
FS - Morgan
SS - Pollard

QB - Cassel
RB - Jennings/Charles
FB - Cox
WR - Bowe
WR - Engram
TE - Cottam
LT - Albert
LG - Waters
C - Goff
RG - Robinson
RT - Lang

What the hell, my fantasy draft:

Trade Tony for the 55th pick (I love him, but it's time).

Trade down from the 3rd pick to the 10th (49ers snatch Sanchez ahead of the Seahawks) and pick up the 43rd pick (SF's 2nd) and the 146th (SF's 5th).

Draft
1) Tyson Jackson (DE)
2a) Duke Robinson (RG)
2b) Phil Loadholt (RT)
3) Chris Baker (NT)
4) Derek Pegues (FS)
5a) Worrell Williams (ILB)
5b) Jonathan Casillas (OLB)
6) Nader Abdallah (DE)
7) BPA
7) BPA

DE - Glenn Dorsey
NT - Chris Baker (rookie)
DE - Tyson Jackson (rookie)
OLB - DJ
OLB - Mike Vrabel
ILB - Worrell Williams (rookie)
ILB - Zach Thomas
OLB - Vrabel
CB - Flowers
CB - Carr
FS - Derek Pegues (rookie)
SS - Pollard

QB - Cassel
RB - LJ - no use cutting him
FB - Cox
1WR - Bowe
2WR - Engram
3WR - Bradley
TE - Cottam
LT - Albert
LG - Robinson (rookie)
C - Goff
RG - Waters - move him to provide experience on the right side
RT - Loadholt (rookie)

EDIT: Just counted. Amazingly, that's twelve new starters over 2008.

[pbatrucker]

Tyson Jackson comes with a lot of bagage. If you're going to draft a DE that early it has to be Robert Ayers.
Antoine Calweld will be a great pick for us.
If Loadholt is ever going to be a starter in the NFL it will be 2 to 3 years down the road.
If we have to draft a NT, I'd rather wait until next year and pick up Cody from Alabama, he's 365 and makes Rahji look like a *****cat.

[jmlamerson]

Tyson Jackson comes with a lot of bagage. If you're going to draft a DE that early it has to be Robert Ayers.
Antoine Calweld will be a great pick for us.
If Loadholt is ever going to be a starter in the NFL it will be 2 to 3 years down the road.
If we have to draft a NT, I'd rather wait until next year and pick up Cody from Alabama, he's 365 and makes Rahji look like a *****cat.

What baggage?

[Chief Tyler]

What baggage?

I found a little "baggage" on Jackson, straight from his scouting report:

Character: Jackson is well-liked by his teammates and coaching staff, and was considered one of the team's prime locker room leaders. He commands respect on the field for his ability and is the type of player you never have to worry about getting into trouble. He is involved in community affairs and has been responsible and respectful. GRADE: 6.2

Tyson Jackson, LSU, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com Football

Oh, and Ayers was arrested for aggravated assault in 2005.

Jackson has more of an ideal build for 3-4 end too, he's projected to be more of a run stopper than a sack threat though, I think he's worth of our first round pick though, if we get a middle of the pack pick. He could be on the board well into the late teens too, get a couple more picks from that if possible.