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  1. #1
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    Default Current Roster Evaluation


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    I've seen a lot of posts stating vast overreactions to the state of the current roster. I've seen posts that state we need 3 new O-linemen, that we need 3 new WRs, and that we need 2 new safeties to go along with 2 or 3 new LBs, 2 new DTs and a new CB, a new RB and a new QB.

    SO, basically, we don't have a SINGLE good player on this team. I think otherwise. So, I'm going to run down the roster and try to identify who stays, who goes and who currently on the roster can either keep their starting roles or step into a starting role. After this exercise and ensuing discussion, we should have a BETTER idea as to what positions ACTUALLY have to be filled thru free agency and the draft.

    Let's start with the offense.

    WR- Dwayne Bowe, Mark Bradley, Will Franklin, and Kevin Robinson

    Dwayne Bowe is a legitimate #1 WR in the making and shouldn't be looked at as someone who needs to be replaced. He could very well turn into a #2 WR if the Chiefs get Boldin or Crabtree or Houshmandzadeh, but the Chiefs don't HAVE to go out and find that #1 WR. They would probably better served by finding a less expensive #2 WR. Mark Bradley was the #2 last season and he impressed a lot of people but he fell off dramatically during the second half of the season and could serve as a good #3 in the future. Will Franklin and Kevin Robinson still need time to develop as most late round WRs do and it's probably too soon to tell what they're going to become.

    RB- Larry Johnson, Jamaal Charles, Kolby Smith, Jackie Battle

    Who knows what the hell is going on with LJ. He's still talented enough to be a great back for a couple more seasons and would probably be more valuable to the team if the Chiefs kept him instead of trying to trade him. All the reasons we want to get rid of him are all the reasons why teams won't give us fair value in a trade. He serves the team better staying as the featured back. Jamaal Charles probably solidified his position as the 3rd down back and #2 back. Kolby Smith will serve this team well as the #3 back if one of the first two were to get hurt. Jackie Battle is probably going to find himself stuck on special teams or the practice squad.

    TE- Tony Gonzalez, Brad Cottam, Michael Merritt, Jed Collins

    Tony is staying. Again, his value to the team is more as a player than a trade chip. Chances are, he at the very least puts up an average Tony Gonzalez year. Brad Cottam gets another year to learn from TG before becoming the future at that position. The Chiefs are set at TE for the foreseeable future. Michael Merritt probably cost himself a roster spot "over a little weed." So look for the Chiefs to grab another TE at somepoint during the off season. I know NOTHING about Jed Collins. Perhaps he can step into Merritt's role on the team.

    LT- Branden Albert, Herb Taylor, Andrew Carnahan

    Branden Albert played beyond expectations for a rookie who missed the entire preseason. He has the talent to be the franchise's LT for the next decade or so. However, his versatility and college background gives the Chiefs to option to move him inside or to the other OT position and draft the best available LT at #3. Herb Taylor did enough during his time on the line this season to warrant a look at a starting spot somewhere on the line. I know nothing about Carnahan.

    LG- Brian Waters, Wade Smith

    Brian Waters is a Pro Bowl OG and will be back for at least another season and possibly two. The Chiefs should find a LG for the future at some point this off season or next. Wade Smith is a good backup guard and should have a roster spot locked down.

    C- Rudy Niswanger, Wade Smith

    Rudy Niswanger is too big for the C position. This position IS one of the positions on the line that should be upgraded this season. I'd expect the Chiefs to draft or sign a new Center. Wade Smith would probably lose his job as backup to Niswanger.

    RG- Adrian Jones, Wade Smith, Tavares Washington

    Another position that will change next season. Although, the replacement might be found on the current roster. I'd actually expect Niswanger to take a step to his right and fill this position. His size, build, and talent could be perfect for the guard spot. Wade Smith is a good backup and Washington is probably a non-factor.

    RT- Damion McIntosh, Herb Taylor, Barry Richardson

    This could actually be one of the deeper positions on the line. McIntosh really came on toward the end of the season and COULD keep his spot. Herb Talyor is knocking on the door and could push for a starting position. Barry Richardson was drafted last season with the thought in mind that HE could be the future at that position. Then, depending on what they want to do with Albert, HE could be at this spot to start the season. I'm not sure the Chiefs will be looking to bring in another player to compete here.

    QB- Tyler Thigpen, Quinn Gray, Brodie Croyle, Damon Huard

    Your guess is as good as mine here. If Pioli is as good of a talent evaluator as everyone says he is, he'll see that the value we'd have to give up for Cassel isn't nearly worth the difference between he and Thigpen. I doubt the Chiefs trade a pair of firsts for Cassel. Gray was a good back up and should be retained. Croyle would be a cheap, young and talented 3rd QB if no other QB were brought in to compete. Damon Huard probably doesn't have a spot next season.

    Defense

    LE- Tamba Hali, Wallace Gilberry, Turk McBride

    Tamba Hali plays good at LE. I doubt they'll look to replace him. I can't see Turk McBride staying on the team. He just hasn't done enough. I know nothing about Gilberry.

    LT- Tank Tyler, Alfonso Boone

    Tank is developing nicely and I think the Chiefs got a steal in the 3rd, drafting this guy. Alfonso Boone is a good rotational player and he'll have a roster spot.

    RT- Glenn Dorsey Ron Edwards, Derek Lokey

    Everyone is freaking out about Dorsey and worrying that he could be Ryan Sims part Deux. That's not the case. Dorsey is going to be a great DT. The problem with him and Tyler going forward is that the Chiefs may not keep the 4-3 and that might spell doom for both players. Edwards is a good rotational player and should have a roster spot next season. I don't know much about Lokey other than he was above average at Texas.

    RE- Jason Babin, Andy Studebaker, Brian Johnston

    Jason Babin really surprised some people last season and may have won a roster spot going into next season. Although, I seriously doubt he'll be looked at as THE starting LDE. I don't know enough about Studebaker and Johnston to be able to give an informed opinion.

    LOLB- Demarrio Williams, Curtis Gatewood

    Williams needs to be a backup and the Chiefs need to fill their linebacking positions through free agency.

    MLB- Pat Thomas Weston Dacus

    See above

    ROLB- Derrick Johnson

    Johnson is the only good LB the Chiefs have on their team. Since being drafted 15th overall, he has underachieved. This season is going to be a huge year for him as it pertains to his future as a Chief.

    LCB- Brandon Carr, Pat Surtain, Maurice Leggett

    Brandon Carr and Maurice Leggett did enough last season to be considered for a starting position next season. Look for Pat Surtain to be released.

    RCB- Brandon Flowers

    Starter.... for a WHILE

    SS- Bernard Pollard, DaJuan Morgan

    Personally, I like Pollard. His mistakes seem to be basic. If he can figure out how to wrap up, I think we've got a SS for a long time.

    FS- Jarrad Page, DaJuan Morgan, Jon McGraw

    I wouldn't be surprised to see Page come back. But, I also wouldn't be surprised to see Morgan become the new FS.


    The way I see it, the Chiefs NEED only a few players from free agency and the draft, while any other players they bring in would be considered upgrades and would render the players they replace as depth... WHICH IS A GOOD THING!!

    This is how I see the roster:

    FA/D= Free Agent/Draft

    Offense
    QB- Thigpen
    RB- Johnson
    TE- Gonzalez
    WR- Bowe, FA/D, Bradley
    LT-Albert or D
    LG-Waters
    C-FA/D
    RG-Niswanger/Albert
    RT-Taylor/Albert/McIntosh

    Defense
    LDE-Tamba Hali/Jason Babin
    LT-Tyler
    RT-Dorsey
    RDE-FA/D
    ROLB-FA/D
    MLB-FA/D
    LOLB-Johnson
    LCB-Carr/Leggett/FA/D
    RCB-Flowers/FA/D
    SS-Pollard
    FS-Morgan

    So, as far as in players the Chiefs NEED to bring in, they really just NEED five players to complete the starting squad (excluding depth). We need a RDE, ROLB, MLB, #2 WR and a Center. The rest of the team CAN be filled through players already on the team.

  2. #2
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    Great post. I agree with most everything you've said. I don't think things are as dire as most fans.

    You mention that this team needs 5 starters excluding depth. RDE, ROLB, MLB, #2 WR, and a Center. If we can get 2-3 in free agency, then this team is on its way.

    The Chiefs can get a starter at any of these positions with the #3 pick. I think they can get a starting center in rounds 2-4 of the draft.

    So if the Chiefs get 2-3 free agents, address the other needs with the #3 pick, and get a center with the 2nd or 3rd rd pick of the draft then they will have improved dramatically.

    The big focus for this team needs to be improving the pass rush and solidifying the OL. A lot will depend on whether the team moves to a 3-4 defense. That could change everything. But assuming we stick with a 4-3 this year, then we aren't that far away from competing for an AFC West title.

    I think the Chiefs are forced to stick with a 4-3 this year. They don't have the personel to run a 3-4 yet. Plus they have a lot of money tied up in Dorsey who really doesn't fit in a 3-4 scheme IMO.


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    Great reply. We definatly need an OT and I believe one of the two top centers will be available in the second round. That would allow our current center to right guard were he probally belongs and our OL would be pretty solid.
    Our DL might not be as bad as we think. I can't recallour DL line running any stunts at all last year. It seems to me that they would tie up one on one with the OL therfore not utilizing there quickness and causing confusion so that our blitzers have an opurtuntiy to get to the QB. Yes we still need a pass rusher, I'm just saying that our players were not utilized correctly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pbatrucker View Post
    Great reply. We definatly need an OT and I believe one of the two top centers will be available in the second round. That would allow our current center to right guard were he probally belongs and our OL would be pretty solid.
    Our DL might not be as bad as we think. I can't recallour DL line running any stunts at all last year. It seems to me that they would tie up one on one with the OL therfore not utilizing there quickness and causing confusion so that our blitzers have an opurtuntiy to get to the QB. Yes we still need a pass rusher, I'm just saying that our players were not utilized correctly.
    I agree with you on how our D-line was miss used. When you just rush 4 line men and they have 5 linemen blocking everytime, your not going to have a good rush. That defense last year looking nothing like Gunther would have ran. So im saying that Herm had the last word as to what the team ran on D. He hardly ever blitzed and the LB we always backpeddling. Thats why we gave up so much on the run D. You look at all of the end of the games where we were ahead. And you will see alot of guys were in the right area, but were never attacking. I hate the Cover 2.

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    I disagree with Williams. I think he is a great guy, just as well with a totally miscoached defense. He has speed and has shown he can make a play.


    On the other hand, Pat Thomas is horrid, he should be cut all together, I didn't see him do anything. I once even saw him being dragged by Michael Turner for 15 yards. The guy didn't do anything outstanding in my eyes.

    I didn't see anything about Donnie Edwards. I presume he is going to retire anyways. He was in his prime when the Chiefs gave him up to the Bolts. Sadly enough, he never was good as he once was. Though he was probably a good leader.

  6. #6
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    Great job, Tex. I dont agree with your O-line projection though. Most of these guys cant block well in a standard system. I say we draft a LT at #3 and start him there, then move Albert to RT. We need to Pick up a Guard in free agency and put him opposite Brian. At center, we draft either Alex Mack or Max Unger. YES, I AM saying that we should Spend our first two picks on O-lineman. The Jets did it a couple years ago with DaBrickashaw Ferguson and Nick Mangold, they picked up Faneca in free agency and ended up with an outstanding line.

    I do believe, like Tex, that this team is MUCH better than alot of people think they are. If we were to stick with my O-line and pick up some linebackers, this team would be very competitve with everybody else on the roster. Can we use another D-lineman? Of coarse, but you can only do so much and I think this is where WE HAVE TO start.

    Mcintosh and Herbie can stay as backups and thats it!


    CLICK HERE! FOR MY TWITTER PAGE

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    It's really hard to evaluate the young talent on this team. They were so God awfully coached this season, especially on defense. That may be an issue with some of the players, as they may need to be "re-coached" to get rid of bad habits and technique. No doubt that Haley has his work cut out for him this first year. But I honestly think he can do it, but he will definitely need a great DC to reverse the damage done to that side of the ball by Herm and Gunther.

    Jamaal Charles. University of Texas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by greg3564 View Post
    It's really hard to evaluate the young talent on this team. They were so God awfully coached this season, especially on defense. That may be an issue with some of the players, as they may need to be "re-coached" to get rid of bad habits and technique. No doubt that Haley has his work cut out for him this first year. But I honestly think he can do it, but he will definitely need a great DC to reverse the damage done to that side of the ball by Herm and Gunther.
    Absolutely agreed! Good post.


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    Just putting some of options the Chiefs will have if our needs are RDE, ROLB, MLB, #2 WR, and a Center

    No trades

    FA: (1 DE and 1 LB and 1 OL)
    DE- Suggs/Peppers/Chris Canty/Antonio Smith
    LB- Vilma/Crowder/Dansby/Hill
    OL- Andrews/Evans/Brown

    Draft (If LT first)
    1) Eugene Monroe LT (Proven he is as good as Albert)
    2) Brian Cushing OLB (was great at senior week)
    3) Herman Johnson G/RT OR Jonathan Luigs C (Who ever is still on the board)
    4) Ramses Barden WR (6'6 230 almost as fast as Crabtree)


    Draft (LB first)
    1) Aaron Curry OLB/MLB (best overall LB in draft)
    2) Duke Robinson G OR Alex Mack C (take which ever is still on the board)
    3) Herman Johnson G/RT OR Jonathan Luigs C (Who ever is still on the board)
    4) Ramses Barden WR (6'6 230 almost as fast as Crabtree)

    Draft (WR First)
    1) Michael Crabtree WR (Best WR in draft)
    2) Duke Robinson G OR Alex Mack C (take which ever is still on the board)
    3) Herman Johnson G/RT OR Jonathan Luigs C (Who ever is still on the board)
    4) Gerald McRath OLB (Considered to be the best weak side LB in draft)

  10. #10
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    Ive been thinking and I dont think our LB corps is nearly as horrible as we think it may be, even with a change to a 3-4.

    Right now it would seem like DJ (ILB) and Vrabel (OLB) are locks for starting positions.

    On our roster we have Demorrio Williams, Pat Thomas, and Rocky Boiman as people who have at one time held a starting spot. We also have Jason Babin who started at 3-4 OLB (and seemed to have decent stats) since his rookie season with Houston. Some people think that Hali can make the transition to OLB (I personally disagree).

    After looking at the guys we have, I think we are only one guy away from a pretty solid LB corps. We need an OLB and an ILB. Jason Babin and Hali may be able to cover one of the OLB spots. Babin has experience at that spot in a 3-4. Hali has the skills to rush the QB. All the other guys (Williams, Thomas, Boiman) seemed to show enough skills to be good as backups and in rotation (and on special teams). Plus I think there Pioli knows how to plug in decent at best LBs to make a good LB corps (see Junior Seau ... who really should change his name to Senior ... and Tedy "Stroke" Bruschi).

    The key to a good 3-4 (or any defense, whether it is Tampa 2, 4-3, regular cover 2, etc) is a good, strong DL. Right now we dont have the personnel that has proven they can be good and strong in a 3-4.

    I think Dorsey is best suited at DE. He compares well in size to Chris Canty (except height) and in college his skills were at getting upfield. I think some combo of Tank, Boone, and Edwards can hold down the other DE spot. I think NT is our biggest weakness. The biggest guy on our roster (according to the roster listed on KCChiefs.com) is Ron Edwards at 315. That is about 15lbs too light for a dominant NT.

    There arent any great NT available in FA.

    This convinces me that we will probably not go after Curry. DL is a bigger need on defense. Also, with a new expensive QB, most GMs will want to protect them. It is either going to be BJ Raji or the best OL (Monroe or J. Smith). That is, if we dont trade down. I think Pioli will go OL to protect the investment in Cassel.

    If we go OL in round 1, then I would hope that Ron Brace or Chris Baker are available when we pick in the 3rd round. Baker is really athletic, and Brace is one of the strongest DL this year.

    Ron Brace, BC
    Height: 6-3. Weight: 330.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.25.
    Combine 40 Time: 5.47.
    Benchx225: 32.

    Chris Baker, Hampton
    Height: 6-2. Weight: 326.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.03.
    Combine 40 Time: 5.02.
    Benchx225: 24. Vertical: 35.5.
    Last edited by jap1; 03-01-2009 at 10:15 PM.

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