So . . . you Pioli/Haley haters look pretty dumb right now

[jmlamerson]

In the first day of FA, the Chiefs have managed to get a field marshal for their defense and their QBOTF - all for a 2nd round pick.

I know, I know. You were all heavily invested in loving Herm. I know that you wanted youth instead of talent.

It's unfortunate that our bandwagon will be big enough for you when we start winning games in 2009.

[Chief Tyler]

Ya know what? You were never going to hear about not getting a QB from me.

I'm not really the eternal pessimist. This team just continually does things that don't look right to me.

How has that been working out anyway?

Funny, how "any team in the NFL would have probably agreed to" but noone else did.

As of this moment, this is a good deal. Not the most amazing thing that any team has ever been able to push through.

We have a team that desperately needed O-line and D-line, and lots of it.

With only so many options for attaining what we need, there is reason to raise an eyebrow at this deal.

There is also plenty of reason to fear emulating The Arizona Cardinals. Four good games, of the last sixty is not something that I want to see us duplicate, myself.

Why would you raise an eyebrow at this deal? We had desperate needs at almost every position. There were a lot of people that still had us picking a QB even after the combine, and I wouldn't have ruled it out. We gave up a second rounder and, for all intents and purposes, got a QBOTF (and to me, much more desirable than the ones we would have had to use a 3rd pick for). And on top of that we received a leader and mentor for our defense who should hopefully be useful for 2-3 years or more. A 2nd round pick fills one hole when used to draft, we filled 2, whats so questionable about that? We still have the ability to get a few picks back and there are some quality linemen still out there in FA. Pioli has a plan and I'm all for it.

Also, not getting an OL/DL with our 34th isn't that much of a blow, we can still pick them up later, and with some luck and proper coaching they might turn out solid. Linemen (more-so OL) are players that stay productive well into their 30's. These guys get bigger and stronger as they get older, so it's hard to judge how one might turn out 6 or 7 years down the raod when he's fresh out of college.

[honda522]

The HELL WITH HERM AND CARL. Even though I don't like the idea of Cassel, its still better than the Chiefs done in recent years.

[hometeam]

I am a supporter of Pioli and Haley.

After these moves, I am starting to become skeptical.

I will wait to hold my judgement though. In my opinion Vrabel is old and washed up. Cassel is a product of outstanding support in the players around him. There has to be drastic improvement along the offensive line before I get giddie...

vrabel is here to lead our young linebackers into our new 3-4 defense~

[hometeam]

Ya know what? You were never going to hear about not getting a QB from me.

I'm not really the eternal pessimist. This team just continually does things that don't look right to me.

How has that been working out anyway?

Funny, how "any team in the NFL would have probably agreed to" but noone else did.

As of this moment, this is a good deal. Not the most amazing thing that any team has ever been able to push through.

We have a team that desperately needed O-line and D-line, and lots of it.

With only so many options for attaining what we need, there is reason to raise an eyebrow at this deal.

There is also plenty of reason to fear emulating The Arizona Cardinals. Four good games, of the last sixty is not something that I want to see us duplicate, myself.

maybe the reason "any team" didnt agree to this is becuase the pats wouldnt have agreed to it with anyone but pioli?

[DT14PRIEST]

Ya know what? You were never going to hear about not getting a QB from me.

I'm not really the eternal pessimist. This team just continually does things that don't look right to me.

How has that been working out anyway?

Funny, how "any team in the NFL would have probably agreed to" but noone else did.

As of this moment, this is a good deal. Not the most amazing thing that any team has ever been able to push through.

We have a team that desperately needed O-line and D-line, and lots of it.

With only so many options for attaining what we need, there is reason to raise an eyebrow at this deal.

There is also plenty of reason to fear emulating The Arizona Cardinals. Four good games, of the last sixty is not something that I want to see us duplicate, myself.

Think of it like this Cassel is Sanchez except with NFL experience and instead of tape from College we got one year of tape from a full season in the NFL playing NFL ball and making big time plays. We basically got a first round QB without having to waste a first round pick on him.

Any team in the NFL would have agreed to this if you look at it from a wider perspective. The Pats are/were working with limited cap space and a host of young talent they wanted to sign extensions to this year rather then waiting for next years free agency. They have a franchised tag QB making ~$15million relegated to sitting on the bench when Brady comes back and a host of problems to deal with in the draft if they can't get a deal for him done.

Cassel's franchise tag was the equivalent a hit to the salary cap of the Pats as a first round, top ten draft choice pick. It wouldn't of made sense for them to trade away Cassel to a team (Detroit) in return for the 1st pick in the draft, they simply couldnt afford it in the long run. So with the Chiefs coming in with the 34th pick (a late round 1st round pick) the Pats are dumping the fiscal responsibility of having a franchise tag fiasco in terms of money without the hit of having to take a top ten pick and paying the rookie pool an absurd amount of money which would have voided the deal in the first place.

Vrabel is just icing on the cake. A veteran presence with a few good years left in the tank that clears up more cap space as he would have been a URA next season anyway.

Any team in the NFL would have made this deal but it had to be the right deal for it to work out as smoothly as it did for both sides.

[chief31]

Why would you raise an eyebrow at this deal? We had desperate needs at almost every position. There were a lot of people that still had us picking a QB even after the combine, and I wouldn't have ruled it out. We gave up a second rounder and, for all intents and purposes, got a QBOTF (and to me, much more desirable than the ones we would have had to use a 3rd pick for). And on top of that we received a leader and mentor for our defense who should hopefully be useful for 2-3 years or more. A 2nd round pick fills one hole when used to draft, we filled 2, whats so questionable about that? We still have the ability to get a few picks back and there are some quality linemen still out there in FA. Pioli has a plan and I'm all for it.

Also, not getting an OL/DL with our 34th isn't that much of a blow, we can still pick them up later, and with some luck and proper coaching they might turn out solid. Linemen (more-so OL) are players that stay productive well into their 30's. These guys get bigger and stronger as they get older, so it's hard to judge how one might turn out 6 or 7 years down the raod when he's fresh out of college.

There were a lot of people that still had us picking a QB.... But I was not one of them.

Since it is my opinion that QB was one of the few positions that we had a good performance from in '08, and that we are severely deficient at several other positions, then scepticism about our ability to adrress the positions that are of the biggest need should be very easily understood.

Also, not getting an OL/DL with our 34th isn't that much of a blow, we can still pick them up later, and with some luck and proper coaching they might turn out solid...

This is pretty-much why our o-line has been so terrible the past couple of seasons. Because we take guys later, on the hopes that they "might" become "solid".

The problem with that is that they "probably" "won't".

maybe the reason "any team" didnt agree to this is becuase the pats wouldnt have agreed to it with anyone but pioli?

So you honestly believe that The Pats would accept less in trade from a former employee?

I suppose it is possible. But I won't buy into that one, until it is shown to be fact.

[chief31]

Think of it like this Cassel is Sanchez except with NFL experience and instead of tape from College we got one year of tape from a full season in the NFL playing NFL ball and making big time plays. We basically got a first round QB without having to waste a first round pick on him.

Any team in the NFL would have agreed to this if you look at it from a wider perspective. The Pats are/were working with limited cap space and a host of young talent they wanted to sign extensions to this year rather then waiting for next years free agency. They have a franchised tag QB making ~$15million relegated to sitting on the bench when Brady comes back and a host of problems to deal with in the draft if they can't get a deal for him done.

Cassel's franchise tag was the equivalent a hit to the salary cap of the Pats as a first round, top ten draft choice pick. It wouldn't of made sense for them to trade away Cassel to a team (Detroit) in return for the 1st pick in the draft, they simply couldnt afford it in the long run. So with the Chiefs coming in with the 34th pick (a late round 1st round pick) the Pats are dumping the fiscal responsibility of having a franchise tag fiasco in terms of money without the hit of having to take a top ten pick and paying the rookie pool an absurd amount of money which would have voided the deal in the first place.

Vrabel is just icing on the cake. A veteran presence with a few good years left in the tank that clears up more cap space as he would have been a URA next season anyway.

Any team in the NFL would have made this deal but it had to be the right deal for it to work out as smoothly as it did for both sides.

Seriously? You are actually trying to sell that?

Why wouldn't they accept the top pick, then trade even-up for a later pick? I imagine that they could even add a sixth round pick in a deal like that.

Rather you can afford to pay a top-ten pick, or not, those picks have a value to them regardless of your particular cap space situation.

Besides, the Lions also have the pick just ahead of in the second round too.

I agree that we got a good deal. But certainly not that any team would have done it.

The primary reason that Cassel went so cheap is because The Pats intended to trade him from day one.

They never had any intentions of paying a backup QB a franchise salary.

With few serious inquiries, the top bidder gets the deal.

We were the top bidder. Noone else was willing to beat this offer, or we wouldn't have gotten him for what we gave.

Friends and business are kept seperate.

[northwest]

no matter how you look at it, the chiefs got better with this transaction.

do you really think the 2nd rounder would have helped our team? we have TOO MANY young, inexperienced players.

we needed this. i can't believe some people are skeptical of it.

personally, i think chiefs will deal thigpen if we can get something in return that will help our defense. i wouldn't mind keeping him either.

[yashi]

no matter how you look at it, the chiefs got better with this transaction.

do you really think the 2nd rounder would have helped our team? we have TOO MANY young, inexperienced players.

No and I wasn't really impressed with the players that were likely to be available with our 2nd pick when taking into account the positions we need most. I didn't mind losing that pick at all.

[DT14PRIEST]

Seriously? You are actually trying to sell that?

Why wouldn't they accept the top pick, then trade even-up for a later pick? I imagine that they could even add a sixth round pick in a deal like that.

Rather you can afford to pay a top-ten pick, or not, those picks have a value to them regardless of your particular cap space situation.

Besides, the Lions also have the pick just ahead of in the second round too.

I agree that we got a good deal. But certainly not that any team would have done it.

The primary reason that Cassel went so cheap is because The Pats intended to trade him from day one.

They never had any intentions of paying a backup QB a franchise salary.

With few serious inquiries, the top bidder gets the deal.

We were the top bidder. Noone else was willing to beat this offer, or we wouldn't have gotten him for what we gave.

Friends and business are kept seperate.

Can't say that the first round pick of this years draft and Matt Cassel are equivalent trades. I cant think of any team that would want to trade up to the number one pick in this years draft let alone see how the Patriots could trade that pick away for later round picks. It would be a bad deal for both sides. Yea the pick has value but its over valued this year and if the Pats were stuck with it you're talking about paying a ~15-20$ million dollar signing bonus on top of a bogus contract details. It technically turns out to being an equivalent hit to the cap situation for the Pats as it would of been to just keep Cassel as a Franchise back up.

The idea behind the franchise tag was to get the most bang for the buck. By picking up the early second rounder the Pats freed up that cap space while securing a pick in the draft that could be considered a late first while not having to pay him first round money.

Yes the Lions could of offered it and the Pats could of taken their second instead of ours but I dont remember hearing anything about that so its a moot point and speculation does nothing.

So the Chiefs offer was the only one of interest since we were giving them a gold in a early 2nd pick and clearing them of Cassel and his franchise debt.