Chief Tek
Arizonas Offensive and Defensive Coordinator Running our Team
Well, we have the offensive and defensive coordinator of a 9-7 team. I guess that leaves the difference in the rosters. Do we have a better roster than Arizona had last year? If its worse, are we worse, or will we be different? Maybe Chan Gailey is the exception. Whats your opinion?
Hall of Famer
Simply just not true when comparing last years Cards to teams of the past 5 years! While I will grant you the division was down last year, the 08 Cardinals were a much improved team from past years. Coaching staff, (can't expect miracles in 1 year) defense,(drafted a very good Rodgers -Cromartie) owner finally dug into his pocket and spent his cap money (had not happened in 16 years) therefore bringing in some key players. So, the comparison between last years team and Cards teams of the past is not even close! If you break down the offensive stats from them they are overwhelmingly in their favor:Originally Posted by chief31
Better avg stats than their opponents in 08 (Cardinals)
More 1st downs
More 3rd down conversions
Better avg 4th down conversions
More total offensive yds
More total offensive plays per game
More total rushing yds per game
More total passing yds per game
Better completion %
Better field goal %
More TD's
More TOP
+8 TO ratio
Ranked 4th in points
Ranked 4th in total yds
Ranked 2nd in passing
Defense ranked 6th in playoff defense
Now I realize there are several stats that they were not so good in too. However, The Chiefs could not score any points last year. The Cardinals had 10-12 games last year where they scored 30 points or more! If KC's defense can improve just a little from what they were last year, I think this coaching staff can improve on the putrid 2 win total from last season simply because of the offense. Is that good enough for some? Maybe not. Might not be good enough for me but after watching this team be soooooooo bad the last few years, I am willing to accept any forward movement as far as wins are concerned!
Sith Master
I think you could get some circus clown, or drunken hillbilly to improve on 2-14. :)Simply just not true when comparing last years Cards to teams of the past 5 years! While I will grant you the division was down last year, the 08 Cardinals were a much improved team from past years. Coaching staff, (can't expect miracles in 1 year) defense,(drafted a very good Rodgers -Cromartie) owner finally dug into his pocket and spent his cap money (had not happened in 16 years) therefore bringing in some key players. So, the comparison between last years team and Cards teams of the past is not even close! If you break down the offensive stats from them they are overwhelmingly in their favor:
Better avg stats than their opponents in 08 (Cardinals)
More 1st downs
More 3rd down conversions
Better avg 4th down conversions
More total offensive yds
More total offensive plays per game
More total rushing yds per game Are you sure?
More total passing yds per game
Better completion %
Better field goal %
More TD's
More TOP
+8 TO ratio
Ranked 4th in points
Ranked 4th in total yds
Ranked 2nd in passing
Defense ranked 6th in playoff defense 6th? Out of twelve?
Now I realize there are several stats that they were not so good in too. However, The Chiefs could not score any points last year. The Cardinals had 10-12 games last year where they scored 30 points or more! If KC's defense can improve just a little from what they were last year, I think this coaching staff can improve on the putrid 2 win total from last season simply because of the offense. Is that good enough for some? Maybe not. Might not be good enough for me but after watching this team be soooooooo bad the last few years, I am willing to accept any forward movement as far as wins are concerned!
Here are their team stats over the past five seasons.
I want to look at specific trends and changes to each aspect.
2004, if you compare it to all of the other seasons since, is vastly different and really doesn't have much bearing on the teams trends.
I included that season to show how similar the teams stats have been over the past four years, as compared to prior to '05.
'05 is the year that The Cards became a passing offense only team.
The first thing that I will show to support that notion is the PYPG. (passing yards per game)
2008 PYPG - 292.1 (2nd)
2007 PYPG - 254.1 (5th)
2006 PYPG - 247.6 (4th)
2005 PYPG - 277.3 (1st)
2004 PYPG - 180.1 (24th)
Obviously, since 2004, The Cards have been a top passing team. Going from 1st, to 4th, to 5th, to 2nd.
Haley has only been there for, what, the last season, season and a half?
So, from that, one can credit Haley with taking a top-five passing attack and turning it into a top-five passing attack.
Ok. I'll give him some credit for helping to maintain a top five passing attack. But not for creating one.
------------------------------------------------------
Now let's look at the notion that there is no running game.
Here are the RYPG (Rushing yards per game) numbers...
2008 RYPG - 73.6 (32nd)
2007 RYPG - 90.0 (29th)
2006 RYPG - 83.6 (30th)
2005 RYPG - 71.1 (32nd)
2004 RYPG - 104.3 (22nd)
Again, the change form '04 to '05 is obvious. And they have been scraping the barrell ever since, including '08.
So, from that, I see a horrible running game, that remained a horrible running game.
But, if you choose to give Haley credit for maintaing a top passing attack, then you have to give equal blame for maintaining a non-existent running game.
I choose to call that a "push". He really doesn't seem to have had any effect on those team stats.
--------------------------------------------------------
Now, for the total PPG (Points per game)...
2008 PPG - 26.7 (4th)
2007 PPG - 25.3 (7th)
2006 PPG - 19.6 (19th)
2005 PPG - 19.4 (18th)
2004 PPG - 17.8 (26th)
and YPG (Yards per game) stats...
2008 YPG - 365.8 (4th)
2007 YPG - 344.1 (12th)
2006 YPG - 312.5 (18th)
2005 YPG - 348.4 (8th)
2004 YPG - 284.4 (27th)
There is very clear increase to the '08 numbers. That's great. And that is what most people will look at, when looking for positives in Haley.
And I am more than happy to acknowledge that Haley deserves some credit for that. Specifically the PPG stat, as the YPG was really just an already powerful passing attack.
But, when giving that credit, I will keep in mind that the rest of that division was pretty well worthless in '08. So The Niners, Rams and Seahawks should probably get some of that credit.
--------------------------------------------------------
Now for the defense.
Let's look at the PYPG (Passing yards per game) stats...
2008 PYPG - 221.3 (22nd)
2007 PYPG - 232.3 (28th)
2006 PYPG - 230.9 (30th)
2005 PYPG - 193.6 (12th)
2004 PYPG - 189.8 (10th)
Not much there. A slight improvement. But far from endearing to me.
How about RYPG (Rushing yards per game)?
2008 RYPG - 110.3 (16th)
2007 RYPG - 97.9 (9th)
2006 RYPG - 118.6 (16th)
2005 RYPG - 102 (10th)
2004 RYPG - 131.6 (27th)
Again, not much there. A slight regression, that pretty-much seems to counter the slight improvement to the passing defense.
Total YPG (Yards per game)...
2008 YPG - 331.5 (19th)
2007 YPG - 330.2 (17th)
2006 YPG - 349.4 (29th)
2005 YPG - 295.6 (8th)
2004 YPG - 321.3 (12th)
As I suspected from the two examples above... Nothing much to look at for change.
They had an upward spike in '05 and a downward spike in '06. And consistently below average ever since.
Well, PPG (Points per game) was the one stat that showed '08 improvement on the offense. How about PPG on the defense?...
2008 PPG - 26.6 (28th)
2007 PPG - 24.9 (26th)
2006 PPG - 24.3 (29th)
2005 PPG - 24.2 (26th)
2004 PPG - 20.1 (12th)
Hmmm. Nope.
The numbers are pretty crappy for the past four seasons, and rather consistently.
------------------------------------------------------
Basically, this shows exactly what I was stating, that The Cardinals have been a consistently poor defensive team, that can't run the ball, but can pass it.
But, as everyone knows, the '08 Cards went to The Super Bowl.
Most people are done discussing it right there. That's all that matters.
But, after looking at the team, compared to the same team of the past few seasons, I have to wonder how. I just have to.
All of the stats look the same. How does a team that has been 18-30 for three prior season become a Super Bowl team, without getting any real improvement on offense, or defense?
I know they scored 1.5 PPG more. But shouldn't that be nullified by the extra 1.5 PPG that they allowed?
From the stats, this is the same damn team! Pass well, run for squat, and play piss-poor defense. Same team.
There must be some significant differences somewhere. But where?
Their division.
For all of the other seasons in our sample, The Seattle Seahawks dominated the AFC West, having won the division for four straight seasons.
But they went 4-12 in '08.
Well, looking at The Cards' '08 schedule, it becomes clear how they got to the playoffs.
They were 9-7 during the regular season. But they were 6-0 against a horrible NFC West.
That leaves them at 3-7 outside of The NFC West.
Now that sounds like The Arizona Cardinals that I know!
So, that explains how this perennial loser got into the playoffs.
Seems pretty clear-cut to me.
However, they went to The Super Bowl! Not just the playoffs.
And I watched those playoff games. I can't deny that they played very well in the postseason.
There is no way for me to deny that they played well for those four games. (I say four games, because they obviously played well in the one that they lost too.)
Wait a minute.
I wasn't trying to deny that, was I?
Nope. I've said over and over that they played well for those four games.
My point is that everyone seems to be looking at those four games, as if the previous games never even happened.
But this is a team that won the worst division in The NFL, by a single game.
The only thing that impresses me about The Arizona Cardinals is that played four very good playoff games.
Not a damn thing beyond that.
And four games just isn't enough for me to be convinced of anything. Hell, The Chiefs played four good games in '08 (kinda). But they still sucked.
--------------------------------------------------------
Bottom line is that you can look at The Cards for those four games, or you can look at the total package.
But I am not sure how to even go about ignoring everything else.
Last edited by chief31; 05-12-2009 at 07:44 AM.
Hall of Famer
I think it hilarious that you can still after all of your stats still imply that a team sucked after going to the SuperBowl!!
And four games just isn't enough for me to be convinced of anything. Hell, The Chiefs played four good games in '08 (kinda). But they still sucked
TOTAL RUSHING YARDS:
Cards.....366
Opponents...290 (NFL.com)
I'll take the 6th ranked defense out of 12 teams everyday of the week!!! If you look at it that way, if the Chiefs were middle of the pack would they have been any better? My guess is yes!!
You want to look at total packages eh? Look at the numbers for the Chiefs and then look at the numbers for the Cardinals for the 08 season and tell me based on the overall numbers which football team is better? The two coaches coaches we got from Az were components of those numbers. Like I said, I realize there are area's for improvement just like with every team but I am satisfied with having these two guys in place over what we have had the last several years.
You talk about not liking only a passing team. Well if I remember correctly, Warner did it with the Rams and took them fairly deep i would say! Yes Faulk was there but we can agree that they were a pass first team like the Cards. I also remember Marty doing it with KC. Nobody was complaining in those days even though he couldn't get us over the top.
My whole point to my posts are that the Chiefs are significantly better IMO now that they have an offensive minded coach at the helm. You can say defenses' win championships but if you can't score any points you have NO shot at getting to the championship therefore you can't win it! This league has quickly become a pass first league! We have not had a pass first team in many years and what have the results been? Like the numbers put up by the Cards defense or not, the Chiefs are a much better team strictly by having Haley as the HC. If he can get this team scoring the way the Cards did in 08 within a couple of years, this team will be a lock for the playoffs for years to come because like you like to say.......the AFC West will possibly be the worst division in football for years to come!!
Last edited by Drunker Hillbilly; 03-17-2009 at 05:19 PM.
Still Alive!
Sucked may be a little extreme, but they kinda did. Please don't say you didn't hear the pre-playoffs stuff and think the same. "Cards don't deserve it", "If they weren't in the NFC West", "Worst team in the playoffs", etc. The Superbowl may have given you temporary amnesia.
But back to the topic. Because of the AZ OC and DC at the helm should the Chiefs be successful? Absolutely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And for one very good reason. They know what its like to win, KC forgot how in the wake of being Herminated.
Go Chiefs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:smilies_musik45::129:
Last edited by 127markaz; 03-17-2009 at 07:50 PM. Reason: messed up icon
Hall of Famer
Yea of course I heard it. Never did I think it!!! The 08 version of the Cardinals were soooo much better than previous years. Numbers were only slightly better but the eye test says they were much better. Living in Az you have to admit the same! However, I hardly think you can say a team sucks when they had 10-12 games with 30 or more points scored along with a middle of the pack defense. I mean after all there were teams like the Lions, Rams and oh yea....our Chiefs!!!!!!! I do however find it quite puzzling to see you say that the Cards sucked last season but there will be success with the Cards old OC and DC! Weird!Sucked may be a little extreme, but they kinda did. Please don't say you didn't hear the pre-playoffs stuff and think the same. "Cards don't deserve it", "If they weren't in the NFC West", "Worst team in the playoffs", etc. The Superbowl may have given you temporary amnesia.
But back to the topic. Because of the AZ OC and DC at the helm should the Chiefs be successful? Absolutely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And for one very good reason. They know what its like to win, KC forgot how in the wake of being Herminated.
Go Chiefs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:smilies_musik45:
Still Alive!
Come on , now. I said they "kinda did". And if you'll wade through the thread you'll see I referenced the defense of the Cards as troublesome. As far as the Chiefs, a step up from the bottom is very attainable with these guys. Let me ask you. How many games did the Chiefs lose last year by 7 or less? I think under what I hope will be the system employed that Haley 'n Galey will get that 7. So it's off store for Pioli to get some more parts.
Hall of Famer
Don't get me wrong. I don't think the Cards were the best team in the league but they were head and shoulders better than A LOT of teams! The 7 points or less thing doesn't hold water with me. The Chiefs flat out sucked last season and there is no sugar coating it! I will be satisfied if Haley can get the offense rolling and scoring some points. To me, offense is the key factor in the regular season of football. I would much rather have a team that can score at will and have a medicre defense than a team with a great defense that can't score. Offense is going to win out most of the time IMO. If your lucky enough to have both like the Steelers did, well then thats a recipe for success!!
Sith Master
I am not arguing rather or not this new staff is better than zero. (Herm Edwards) That would be quite a long shot.
My point is that The Cardinals have sucked for a long time. Including last season.
But they were given an easy road to the playoffs. Then, for four games, they quit sucking.
And who is this aimed at?
Why do you do that? You constantly make things up. I have never said that.
Anything is possible. But that isn't something that I have ever said.
Kind of like this...
The fact is that they were worse in Rushing Yards Per game. Yet you don't care about reality. You just spout-off whatever you want to be true, and hope noone calls you out on it.
Then, when someone does, you ignore it and try some other approach.
And because you don't bother to verify what you are saying, you have no credibility.
I used to enjoy pointing those faults out. But now I am just tired of it.
I know that anything you post needs to be checked, because I know that you haven't done so.
Which would be fine, if you were expressing guesses or opinions. but you pass that trash off as fact, when it is anything but.
I've said it before. And I'll say it again.
Aside from their last four games, The Arizona Cardinals have been extremely unimpressive. The '08 Cards look just like the 18-30 Cards of the previous three seasons to me.
South Dakota Chiefs Fan
Calm down a little bit everyone. Keep this in mind. As bad- as we were last year , we very well could have been an 8-8 team maybe 9-7 . We we in alot of games last year only to piss it away by a few points. If our Defense would have been just a little bit better..... well now we have the Best Gm and a whole new coaching staff that has to be be better than what we had last year . We have a very good linebacker in Vrabyl and a rising star Qb in Cassel. I think we are in a good position to actually be a 8-8 team or better based on us just improving a little bit over last year. lets just see how this season pans out. We will learn alot about our needs after we get the newness worn off of our team and all of the changes we have made. Im very , very excited . This year is gonna a fun one. Hell we were 2-14 and I had alot of fun watching us play last year with our little Diamond in the rough Thigpen scrambling all around and throwing touchdowns and making the game fun again !
Hall of Famer
First. when I used the term "best in the AFC West" I was referring to you using it with the "NFC West". Second who TF are you to continue to spout off when someone else gives their opinion. You are continuing to whine and complain when people don't give stats to back up every single word they say. This is a "discussion Forum" not a "post your statistics or say nothing forum"!! The stats I provided were correct and directly from NFL.com. If you don't believe them, take it up with them! The rest is simply my opinion! DEAL WITH IT!!!!! IMO again IMO your statement about the Cardinals sucking last season is, how do YOU say, LUDACRIS!!!! You used to fun to banter back and forth with but now your just an a******!!!! Now get your mod finger going and punish me the way you always do when someone cross' you. Ive said it before and I'll say it again and again and again, you are not the know it all that you think you are! Everyone else here has some knowledge of the game and is totally justified for saying there opinion! You need to get off your high horse and quit thinking and displaying that you are the only one that knows anything about anything around here!!!
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks