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Thread: What we should do before the beginning of the 2009 season?

  1. #1
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    Default What we should do before the beginning of the 2009 season?


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    Well, it's post-draft. While we could all argue for the next few years whether the Chiefs draft was bad or good (and I thought it was great), I think everyone agree we have work still to do to present a competitive team on the field in 2009. Here are my suggestions:

    1. Trade our 2nd rounder to the Cards for Anquan Boldin.

    The Boldin/Haley spat last season has been massively overrported. Boldin has already said that he would play for Haley again. Trade our second rounder and immediately upgrade our WR spot. Bowe/Boldin/Bradley/Engram would be the best WR corps in the AFC West. And it would be fairly young. This seems like a no-brainer.

    BTW, I said our 2nd rounder, not the 2nd rounder for TG, because that it the pick I think Arizona would want.

    2. Sign Travis LaBoy to a two-year $3M contract.

    A no-brainer. He would be a cheap reserve at OLB (in the 3-4) and DE (in the 4-3). He's familiar with the 3-4. He averages 13 games a season, which isn't great, but he isn't as fragile as people think either.

    3. Sign Larry Foote to a two-year $8M contract.

    Another no-brainer. He would be starting for us from Game 1 at ILB. Foote is a fantastic ILB who's started for two SB Pittsburgh teams. He hasn't missed a game since his rookie year.

    This would give us a LB corps of DJ/Foote/Thomas/Vrabel. Beisel and Laboy would be our main reserves. Hali would be our project at the position. Our LB corps, which was so putrid in 2008, would actually be the strength of the defense.

    4. Sign Mark Tauscher or Levi Jones to a one-year contract

    Both are coming off injuries. Both are also better than any player we currently have at RT. A one-year contract will be insurance if they get injured again. It will also give the Chiefs time to bring Richardson and/or Brown along.

    5. Entertain trade offers for Thigpen and Hali

    I like Thigpen. I don't think any player in the NFL could have done much better than he did last season given our OL. He is a good backup. But as we get closer to the beginning of the season, teams like Seattle, Carolina, Tennesse, and Jacksonville with old starting QBs, no legitimate backups, and playoff aspirations might look at Thigpen as an excellent insurance policy. If we get offered a 3rd rounder or above, it might be in our best interest to take it.

    As for Hali, he no longer fits our defense. He's a project to be a 3-4 OLB, and he won't even start at DE if we're in a 4-3. If we can get any value for him, let's do so.

    6. Get our picks signed and in camp on time

    I don't think anyone disagrees.

    7. Don't trade LJ or Dorsey

    Not only for the cap hit, but because their changed circumstances (LJ's no longer guarenteed and Dorsey's moving to DE) gives them more value than we'd ever get back in a trade.

    8. Sign Cassel to a long term contract.

    Just do it. Having your potential QBOTF spend a whole year auditioning is only going to lead to holdouts and hurt feelings. We don't need a Cutler situation here.

    9. Don't sign Jason Taylor.

    Not because he's too old, but because I don't see him having a great place in our defense, and because he doesn't play well in the cold.

    Well, those are nine things I think could help the Chiefs in 2009 and beyond. The signings I listed (LaBoy, Foote, and a RT) would total about $9M, Boldin would be about $9M, so we would still have tons of cap room to sign our rookies, even before signing Cassel long term.

    Feel free to agree/disagree, or to add your own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tornadospotter View Post
    Cottam maybe just what we need.
    You are right that I am only judging Cottam's rookie year and his college years. Last year he did not seem to be strong at either skill set, and he didn't exactly post good receiving numbers in college. He has an injury history, and I don't trust him as our primary blocking TE.

    TG being in front of him on the depth chart is a big reason he showed nothing last year, I'll completely admit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yashi View Post
    whoa, whoa, whoa........what?

    Cottam is 6'8" 270 lbs, runs a 4.65 40 and would have been a sure 1st or 2nd round pick last season if he stayed healthy in college. O'Connell is a 7th round rookie and Ryan is a guy who has played on 6 teams in 6 years for a reason (he's not very good).

    I get that you don't like Herm Edwards players lamerson, but Pioli would not have traded the best TE in NFL history if he didn't have any confidence in the guy that was drafted to be his successor. How many tight ends in the league have Cottam's size and speed, but also have good hands and blocking ability? Guy has a big ceiling, just needs to stay healthy. He was barely used last year.
    Couldn't you flip it around that we wouldn't have traded into the 7th round to get O'Connell or picked up Ryan as a FA if we did have faith in Cottom to be Tony's successor.

    I didn't really want to fight about Cottam's abilities. He has every measurable in terms of size, strength and speed. He may turn out to be a terrific TE. If he turns out even to be half of TG, I will grudgingly admit that the 2008 draft wasn't nearly as bad as I think it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KottkeKU View Post
    yes. we still need some starting OL material....and you could throw in LB while your at it...then we should be ok....Bowe + Engram will be the key...and if our TE, Brad Cottam doesnt blow it (like i always said he would...i never liked that pick..) then we will have a good offense... Bowe really needs to step it up though, and emerge as a prime time go to receiver, and take over Tony G's role as the outlet for the QB...Him and Engram will hopefully really open up the offense...

    I like the Terrence Copper pick up too, he gives us a blazing fast target down the field on 4 wideout sets...
    Dude, Cottam is going to be special, maybe not as special as Gonzo, but I believe he has great hands.
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    Quote Originally Posted by yashi View Post
    I agree with most of it, but strongly disagree about locking up Cassel already. I think it's going to happen, but I'm pretty unhappy about it. He is a risk, and if we end up giving him 30+ million guaranteed we could be set back for a long time if he doesn't pan out.

    Can he thrive without the best slot receiver in the league? Without an offense that was the best in NFL history the season before he came along? Why not wait and find out before we make a long time decision? I don't worry about a Cutler situation because: a.) Cassel isn't thin-skinned like Cutler, and b.) His agent isn't Bus Cook.

    That said, I also don't trade Thigpen because quite frankly if Cassel turns out to be a system QB who fails outside of New England we need an insurance policy. We at least know what we have with Thigpen: a young, inconsistent QB who has shown he can move the ball down the field and be productive in the right system.
    Sure it's a risk to sign Cassel long-term. Selecting a franchise QB, either by trade or through the draft and signing him to a contract is a boom-or-bust sort of thing. For every Matt Hasselbeck, there are three AJ Feeleys. For every Peyton Manning, there are three David Carrs.

    But we are never going to win anything without a franchise QB. And we'll never get a franchise QB by paying him year to year.

    Think about it this way, we're going to pay Cassel less than either the Jets will pay Sanchez or the Lions will pay Stafford. And I'd rather have him than either of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmlamerson View Post
    Couldn't you flip it around that we wouldn't have traded into the 7th round to get O'Connell or picked up Ryan as a FA if we did have faith in Cottom to be Tony's successor.

    I didn't really want to fight about Cottam's abilities. He has every measurable in terms of size, strength and speed. He may turn out to be a terrific TE. If he turns out even to be half of TG, I will grudgingly admit that the 2008 draft wasn't nearly as bad as I think it is.
    Fair point, but to counter I would also wonder why we didn't take Cornelius Ingram in the 5th round, arguably the best pure pass catching TE in the draft if we didn't have faith in Cottam. It has to say something that we drafted for depth at DE, CB, and WR before taking a potential starting TE, and waited all the way until the 7th round to do so. 7th rounders are typically drafted for depth and nothing more, and I strongly feel that was the case here as well. I'd be shocked if Cottam isn't the starting TE every game next season (barring injury).

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    Quote Originally Posted by yashi View Post
    Fair point, but to counter I would also wonder why we didn't take Cornelius Ingram in the 5th round, arguably the best pure pass catching TE in the draft if we didn't have faith in Cottam. It has to say something that we drafted for depth at DE, CB, and WR before taking a potential starting TE, and waited all the way until the 7th round to do so. 7th rounders are typically drafted for depth and nothing more, and I strongly feel that was the case here as well. I'd be shocked if Cottam isn't the starting TE every game next season (barring injury).
    Fair enough. Time will tell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmlamerson View Post
    Sure it's a risk to sign Cassel long-term. Selecting a franchise QB, either by trade or through the draft and signing him to a contract is a boom-or-bust sort of thing. For every Matt Hasselbeck, there are three AJ Feeleys. For every Peyton Manning, there are three David Carrs.

    But we are never going to win anything without a franchise QB. And we'll never get a franchise QB by paying him year to year.

    Think about it this way, we're going to pay Cassel less than either the Jets will pay Sanchez or the Lions will pay Stafford. And I'd rather have him than either of them.
    Those teams have no choice but to pay Stafford and Sanchez the big bucks, whereas we have options available.

    I feel like the best and safest move is to wait until 6-7 games into the season, at which point Pioli can make a conscious decision whether or not to go after Cassel hard with a long-term deal.

    I don't expect Cassel to come out and throw for 30 touchdowns next season being that he's going to be in a new system (though with many similarities), but I think we would at least have an idea of whether he has potential as a KC Chief.

    He comes out guns ablazing and wows our pants off, cool. He gets his 35 million guaranteed.

    He looks completely lost without Wes Welker to dump it off to for 10 easy yards every 3rd down, we wait and reevaluate at the end of the year. I'll take the risk.

    Truth be told, there aren't a whole lot of teams who will be looking for a quarterback next season. Lions and Jets have their QBOTF. Rams reached on a guy they must like. Seahawks passed on Sanchez and seem to be confident in Hasselbeck's health and Seneca Wallace for the future. Dolphins appear to be ready to go full Wildcat with White. Vikings and Titans would probably only be interested if he had a good season.

    Worst comes to worst, we somehow lose Cassel. I think Thigpen would be happy to resign knowing he'd once again be the starting QB, and because we apparently had a bad season, we'd likely get the first crack at a QB in the draft to groom while we ride the Thig-Train.

    Don't get me wrong though. The best case scenario is if we lock Cassel up now and he rips it up. It's also the riskiest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yashi View Post
    Those teams have no choice but to pay Stafford and Sanchez the big bucks, whereas we have options available.

    I feel like the best and safest move is to wait until 6-7 games into the season, at which point Pioli can make a conscious decision whether or not to go after Cassel hard with a long-term deal.

    I don't expect Cassel to come out and throw for 30 touchdowns next season being that he's going to be in a new system (though with many similarities), but I think we would at least have an idea of whether he has potential as a KC Chief.

    He comes out guns ablazing and wows our pants off, cool. He gets his 35 million guaranteed.

    He looks completely lost without Wes Welker to dump it off to for 10 easy yards every 3rd down, we wait and reevaluate at the end of the year. I'll take the risk.

    Truth be told, there aren't a whole lot of teams who will be looking for a quarterback next season. Lions and Jets have their QBOTF. Rams reached on a guy they must like. Seahawks passed on Sanchez and seem to be confident in Hasselbeck's health and Seneca Wallace for the future. Dolphins appear to be ready to go full Wildcat with White. Vikings and Titans would probably only be interested if he had a good season.

    Worst comes to worst, we somehow lose Cassel. I think Thigpen would be happy to resign knowing he'd once again be the starting QB, and because we apparently had a bad season, we'd likely get the first crack at a QB in the draft to groom while we ride the Thig-Train.

    Don't get me wrong though. The best case scenario is if we lock Cassel up now and he rips it up. It's also the riskiest.
    Let me put it another way. Can you think of any team in NFL history that played around with its QB like that and had it turn out well? You can't, because it always turns out badly.

    Your arguments are valid pre-trade arguments. But just as it would be laughable for the Jets to draft Sanchez and try to get him to sign a one-year deal, it's laughable for us to trade a high second rounder for a young QB for one $14M year. If we were a QB away from contention (like the Vikes), I might understand. But we didn't trade for Cassel to contend for a playoff spot in 2009. We did to contend in 2010 and beyond.

    In 2010, the Seahawks (they passed on Sanchez because they're smart enough to know Sanchez stinks), Titans, Panthers, and Rams (they didn't draft Keith Null to be a starter) will be looking to draft a QBOTF. The Broncos or Vikings will snatch him up if we're dumb enough to let him go. The 49ers, Browns, Redskins, Panthers, Jaguars, and Bills may be interested as well.

    And although I like Thigpen, you are vastly, vastly overestimating his abilities. He's an undersized pistol QB who doesn't break when he gets knocked down and can scamble. That made him better than our other QBs last season. But it was only good enough to win one game out of ten. He isn't a franchise guy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yashi View Post
    I agree with most of it, but strongly disagree about locking up Cassel already. I think it's going to happen, but I'm pretty unhappy about it. He is a risk, and if we end up giving him 30+ million guaranteed we could be set back for a long time if he doesn't pan out.

    Can he thrive without the best slot receiver in the league? Without an offense that was the best in NFL history the season before he came along? Why not wait and find out before we make a long time decision? I don't worry about a Cutler situation because: a.) Cassel isn't thin-skinned like Cutler, and b.) His agent isn't Bus Cook.

    That said, I also don't trade Thigpen because quite frankly if Cassel turns out to be a system QB who fails outside of New England we need an insurance policy. We at least know what we have with Thigpen: a young, inconsistent QB who has shown he can move the ball down the field and be productive in the right system.
    Both QBs have a big 'risk' factor.

    Now that Tony G. isn't here you have to apply your same logic to Thigpen that you do to Cassel. Does Thigpen even look like a legit QB last season without the best TE in NFL history? Does Thigpen thrive if he's not in the 'Pistol Whip Gun Spread etc' offense that was tailored for him?

    We're never going to get a 'no risk' QB unless we continually want hte Chiefs to pull in last leg vets and journeyman forever.

    Sign Cassel he has all the upside in the world and we really have nothing better unless you covet grooming a QB in next seasons draft class and hoping for a Matt Ryan-esque type stroke of luck, which doesn't happen often.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DT14PRIEST View Post
    Both QBs have a big 'risk' factor.
    Thigpen is not going to command anywhere near 30 million guaranteed.

    And to answer your question, no. I don't think Thigpen can do it without Gonzalez. But I also don't think Cassel will be as good without Wes Welker and the best head coach + QB coach in the NFL.

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