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  1. #1
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    Default Salary Cap Question

    If there is not going to be a cap next year and since we are so far under the cap right now....Why are we NOT signing some PEOPLE???

    What am I missing here?

    C'mon Lamerson...I know you know this stuff better than me!!

  2. #2
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    KC Chris,

    I get ya but I am trying to say that if we are substantially under the cap now (which we are), why are we being stagnant on signing to top tier talent...For example, Anquan Boldin?

    I don't think we should intentionally exceed the cap just because there may not be one next year but I would tend to think that we could use what we have now to get what we need.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbolan View Post
    KC Chris,

    I get ya but I am trying to say that if we are substantially under the cap now (which we are), why are we being stagnant on signing to top tier talent...For example, Anquan Boldin?

    I don't think we should intentionally exceed the cap just because there may not be one next year but I would tend to think that we could use what we have now to get what we need.
    Thank you for the kind words above.

    We haven't signed many people because there aren't that many people to sign. We didn't want to get locked into the insane contracts being handed out to questionable players at the beginning of free agency (Haynesworth, Vilma, Scott, etc.). Which was the way to go. Spending $20M a year on free agents like Bart Scott, Vilma, and Jason Brown gets us nowhere. We're not three, five, or maybe even ten players away right now. We have a nucleus of good young players (Carr, Flowers, Albert, Cassel, Bowe, Pollard, DJ, and maybe Page). We have a good group of savvy vets (Waters, Goff, Vrabel, Beisel, Zach Thomas). We have a whole lot of question marks elsewhere (LJ, Niswanger, Charles, Cottam, Dorsey, Bradley). We have our 2009 draft class. And we have some guys who will start because we have no one else (Tank, Edwards, Hali, McIntosh). We need a lot of help over the next couple years. A massive FA binge would have been the way to go if prices hadn't been so overinflated. Since they were, we did the only thing we could - sign cheap FAs and draft well.

    The problem is that this was a top-heavy FA class. You had good players being overpaid by millions and a lot of middling to bad players. A guy like Marvin Harrison isn't a bad pickup in an abstract sense, but (1) we retard the growth of a young team; (2) we're playing a scheme he's unsuited for; and (3) we're not a player away from contention.

    It doesn't help that KC isn't the preferred destination of most players. We're a small market and are 6-26 over the past two seasons. We could have made the same exact monetary offer to Vilma that the Saints did, and he still wouldn't have come here. We'd have to overpay mediocre guys (like we did with McIntosh a couple years ago) to get them in KC, which is the exact opposite of a good long term plan.

    I'd love a list of FAs who you think we should get. Levi Jones and Mark Tauscher are the only two I can think of right now who would be good for us.

    Also, I don't think there's any way the NFL ditches the salary cap. If there's no salary cap, a few teams will gain massive competitive advantages (Redskins, Cowboys, etc.), so the cap is good for most owners. Likewise, since NFL contracts aren't guarenteed, NFL teams would use the uncapped year to ditch each and every high priced player they can't currently dump for cap reasons. Future contracts would no longer be signing bonus based, and since NFL contracts aren't guarenteed, all but the very best players would lose out. The cap is good for the players. I don't see how both sides don't resolve this issue prior to 2010.

    EDIT: We can;t just sign Boldin. We'd have to trade for him. I think we should, if the price is right.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmlamerson View Post
    Thank you for the kind words above.

    We haven't signed many people because there aren't that many people to sign. We didn't want to get locked into the insane contracts being handed out to questionable players at the beginning of free agency (Haynesworth, Vilma, Scott, etc.). Which was the way to go. Spending $20M a year on free agents like Bart Scott, Vilma, and Jason Brown gets us nowhere. We're not three, five, or maybe even ten players away right now. We have a nucleus of good young players (Carr, Flowers, Albert, Cassel, Bowe, Pollard, DJ, and maybe Page). We have a good group of savvy vets (Waters, Goff, Vrabel, Beisel, Zach Thomas). We have a whole lot of question marks elsewhere (LJ, Niswanger, Charles, Cottam, Dorsey, Bradley). We have our 2009 draft class. And we have some guys who will start because we have no one else (Tank, Edwards, Hali, McIntosh). We need a lot of help over the next couple years. A massive FA binge would have been the way to go if prices hadn't been so overinflated. Since they were, we did the only thing we could - sign cheap FAs and draft well.

    The problem is that this was a top-heavy FA class. You had good players being overpaid by millions and a lot of middling to bad players. A guy like Marvin Harrison isn't a bad pickup in an abstract sense, but (1) we retard the growth of a young team; (2) we're playing a scheme he's unsuited for; and (3) we're not a player away from contention.

    It doesn't help that KC isn't the preferred destination of most players. We're a small market and are 6-26 over the past two seasons. We could have made the same exact monetary offer to Vilma that the Saints did, and he still wouldn't have come here. We'd have to overpay mediocre guys (like we did with McIntosh a couple years ago) to get them in KC, which is the exact opposite of a good long term plan.

    I'd love a list of FAs who you think we should get. Levi Jones and Mark Tauscher are the only two I can think of right now who would be good for us.

    Also, I don't think there's any way the NFL ditches the salary cap. If there's no salary cap, a few teams will gain massive competitive advantages (Redskins, Cowboys, etc.), so the cap is good for most owners. Likewise, since NFL contracts aren't guarenteed, NFL teams would use the uncapped year to ditch each and every high priced player they can't currently dump for cap reasons. Future contracts would no longer be signing bonus based, and since NFL contracts aren't guarenteed, all but the very best players would lose out. The cap is good for the players. I don't see how both sides don't resolve this issue prior to 2010.

    EDIT: We can;t just sign Boldin. We'd have to trade for him. I think we should, if the price is right.
    JM...I get ya.

    I have not "compiled" a list of FA's but I was browsing through the list and then recalled some that have went elsewhere.

    Although I surely know that we cannot sign everyone we want OR need at this time because of the holes we have, I would just like to see a signing of at least "1" proven, high output vet that will also provide longevity to the future of the team.

    Honestly, whether it be a lineman on either side of the ball, a receiver, a DB or whomever.....I just really think we should use the available money to get a solid player that is worth the money and makes a strong contribution, rightfully so.

    As for Anquan, I wish we could trade and pay for him but the price does have to be right. I agree there. But I "think" it is something the Chiefs could get done.

    You have to admit....If he were lined up on the other side of Bowe, it would be a veeery nice advantage for us.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbolan View Post
    JM...I get ya.

    I have not "compiled" a list of FA's but I was browsing through the list and then recalled some that have went elsewhere.

    Although I surely know that we cannot sign everyone we want OR need at this time because of the holes we have, I would just like to see a signing of at least "1" proven, high output vet that will also provide longevity to the future of the team.

    Honestly, whether it be a lineman on either side of the ball, a receiver, a DB or whomever.....I just really think we should use the available money to get a solid player that is worth the money and makes a strong contribution, rightfully so.

    As for Anquan, I wish we could trade and pay for him but the price does have to be right. I agree there. But I "think" it is something the Chiefs could get done.

    You have to admit....If he were lined up on the other side of Bowe, it would be a veeery nice advantage for us.
    I'd love to get Boldin. He's tough and unafraid to go over the middle. He and Bowe would be the best WR tandem in the AFC West. By a longshot. I trade Waters, Turk, and the Tony G. 2nd for him in a heartbeat. Then sign Levi Jones for RT, move Niswanger to RG, Goff to LG, and start Ghuiaciac (sp?) at C. That is, of course, pretty improbable.

    I understand your frustration. But I think you think there are better FAs out there than there really are. As much as I hate the idea of Tank/Edwards as our starting NT in 2009, there isn't a better NT on the market. I'm not a Page fan, but there isn't a better FS. We aren't doing better in FA than Engram and Bradley at WR. Or better than Hali at OLB.

    Go and look at who's out there in FA. The pickings are slim.

  6. #6
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    List of free agents by position... like he said, pickings are slim.

    WalterFootball.com: 2009 NFL Free Agents - Quarterbacks

    My personal opinion: we should have signed at least one big time free agent. We had/have the cap to do it, and money can't help us if it is not spent. Sure there are a ton of holes, but you have to start filling them somewhere.
    Last edited by yashi; 05-29-2009 at 04:46 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by yashi View Post
    List of free agents by position... like he said, pickings are slim.

    WalterFootball.com: 2009 NFL Free Agents - Quarterbacks

    My personal opinion: we should have signed at least one big time free agent. We had/have the cap to do it, and money can't help us if it is not spent. Sure there are a ton of holes, but you have to start filling them somewhere.
    That is a neat site. It does kind of prove my point - there were a lot of good (an mediocre, and bad) players who got massively overpaid.

    I'm not trying to sound like I'm running down the Chiefs, but we're going to have problems attracting legitimate talent as market prices until we start winning. For example, I'll bet Pioli went pretty whole hog after Chris Canty, who the Giants overpaid, and Igor Olshansky, who the Cowboys overpaid. Those are both top teams in big markets. We could have equaled their offers and we wouldn't have gotten them. We could have beat their offers by sizable margins and not gotten the players. If I'm Canty, and I have the choice of spending my prime on a major market, perennial contender in a weak conference or on a rebuilding small market team in the AFC, the choice is really easy.

    I love the Chiefs, and I love KC. But come on. We didn't miss out on FAs because we were lazy or cheap. We missed out because we didn't want to double the offers of guys who would be here only for the massive payday, not for the team.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmlamerson View Post
    I love the Chiefs, and I love KC. But come on. We didn't miss out on FAs because we were lazy or cheap. We missed out because we didn't want to double the offers of guys who would be here only for the massive payday, not for the team.
    Maybe, but Pioli made it clear from the start that he wasn't going to be active at the beginning of free agency and instead go after guys who are still available towards the end, and it appears that's what happened. Sure a lot of guys don't want to sign with bad teams, but not all of them. The Rams signed Jason Brown and the Jags signed Big Game Torry Holt. Neither of those teams are exactly threats to win anything anytime soon.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by yashi View Post
    Maybe, but Pioli made it clear from the start that he wasn't going to be active at the beginning of free agency and instead go after guys who are still available towards the end, and it appears that's what happened. Sure a lot of guys don't want to sign with bad teams, but not all of them. The Rams signed Jason Brown and the Jags signed Big Game Torry Holt. Neither of those teams are exactly threats to win anything anytime soon.
    1. The Rams massively overpaid Brown ($8M a year for an OG/C ?!). I like him, but come on, he's not worth that by a long shot. The Rams will be losers for years based on the crazy signings they've made the past couple offseaons.

    2. The Jags think they are a player or two away. Everyone forgets that they were preseason faves for a lot of writers last year. They overpaid for Holt, just as they overpaid for Porter, hoping that a WR or 2 will put them over the top.

    I think (and I'll admit I have nothing to back it up) that Pioli realized pretty early that most big name FAs weren't coming to KC. And he thought it was better to deflate expectations than inflate them. If we're respectable in 2009, we're going to become more active afterword, mark it.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmlamerson View Post
    I'm not trying to sound like I'm running down the Chiefs, but we're going to have problems attracting legitimate talent as market prices until we start winning. For example, I'll bet Pioli went pretty whole hog after Chris Canty, who the Giants overpaid, and Igor Olshansky, who the Cowboys overpaid. Those are both top teams in big markets. We could have equaled their offers and we wouldn't have gotten them. We could have beat their offers by sizable margins and not gotten the players. If I'm Canty, and I have the choice of spending my prime on a major market, perennial contender in a weak conference or on a rebuilding small market team in the AFC, the choice is really easy.

    I love the Chiefs, and I love KC. But come on. We didn't miss out on FAs because we were lazy or cheap. We missed out because we didn't want to double the offers of guys who would be here only for the massive payday, not for the team.
    Really can't think of anything more to say about the present situation other then this!

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