Offense

[vikingfan]

Hey Guys, big Viking fan here. Anyway, fantasy question here. What type of offense is Haley planning on running with the Chiefs this year? Thigpen was a fantasy stud in my league last year with the spread. New coach, new qb, new TE, what do the Chiefs plan on doing this year? Coming from AZ I would think that Dwayne Bowe could have a big year but there isnt really a compliment to him anywhere.

[jmlamerson]

2000 yards is laughable and no offense but LJ is squat in my eyes until he proves he is no longer going to try and dance around. Last 2 years granted behind a line that couldnt block ryan sims 5-1(sarcasm but u get it) he has tried to dance way to much. I dont see him lower his shoulder and just try to make something out of nothing. I would love to see charles and his 5.3 ypc average get more looks with his blazing speed. And i cant see were people say we dont have the wideouts to run the spread. Last year we didnt have any stellar wideouts cept Bowe and TG and we were in alot of games. Even though tony is gone the TE was not huge for haley and arizona. I think Haley if he believes in cassel like he says he does will open it up and let the sparks fly. The effects are yet to be determined but at any rate i just want to see improved defense. And for everyone who bashed herm you overlook one big time thing that is HE FINALLY MADE THE CHIEFS YOUNGER... and even though not better he never got a chance to see if it would turn out. It beats the peterson vet plug show that did wonders for our SP appearances! Or the Vermiel offense no show defense and cunninghams absolute crap tastic job at anything...

And Charles will fall apart if you give him too many carries. Like most Herm picks, he has every measurable except the ability to stay healthy.

[jmlamerson]

you did see that i wrote though not better didnt you?

You did see that you wrote

he never got a chance to see if it would turn out. It beats the peterson vet plug show that did wonders for our SP appearances! Or the Vermiel offense no show defense and cunninghams absolute crap tastic job at anything...

didn't you?

[Big Daddy Tek]

I think both of you guys have good points. I was a Herm supporter to a point. My stance definitly started to soften as we went through last year though. Herm did finally get us out of the mold that we were in for 15 years, but didnt do it the right way. The fact that we held on to the our skill position vets too long wasn't his fault and that it was very difficult to rebuild while still winning at that point. That to me is all CP's fault. I think a couple of years from now, we will be very greatful that Herm came in did what he did.

Hold on though, I'm not letting Herm off the hook that easy. There was some huge mistakes that happened while Herm was the head Chief. The number one thing that led to our losing was the fact that the youngest team in the league had NOBODY to learn from on the player side. Tony G. and Brian Waters on offense and Donnie Edwards and Pat Surtain on defense. Thats about it. These guys were learning from themselves. Most positions didnt even have an veteran to lead the way in the workout and preperation department, just Herms pep talks. We re-signed LJ instead of Jared (maybe biggest mistake in franchise history) Thats why Zach Thomas, Mike Vrabel,Mike Brown,Mike Goff and Bobby Engram are on our team now. These guys will lead by example and by demand. Gunther complained about the same thing when he left.

The second biggest mistake was running the cover 2 in sickness and in health. The cover 2 is already losing the momentum that it had 10 years ago, when you add no pass rush, your finished. The entire scheme is to have the QB release the ball quickly and have people in zones ready to break on the ball. Every cover 2 that ever worked in world history had a good pass rush. What do we do? Get rid of the best pass rusher in football and put our young playmaker (Tamba Hali) on Jared's side, cutting his production down 2/3's.

The combination of the last two points sets our players up for failure, which is the number one thing that you can never do. Herm set these guys up to fail and after reading about a 300 pound OTA weight loss, its only looking worse for Herm. If Herm was still the coach, I dont think that we would be 2-14 like JM suggested, but there is no way that we would be in the position that we are right now from top to bottom.

[jmlamerson]

I think both of you guys have good points. I was a Herm supporter to a point. My stance definitly started to soften as we went through last year though. Herm did finally get us out of the mold that we were in for 15 years, but didnt do it the right way. The fact that we held on to the our skill position vets too long wasn't his fault and that it was very difficult to rebuild while still winning at that point. That to me is all CP's fault. I think a couple of years from now, we will be very greatful that Herm came in did what he did.

Hold on though, I'm not letting Herm off the hook that easy. There was some huge mistakes that happened while Herm was the head Chief. The number one thing that led to our losing was the fact that the youngest team in the league had NOBODY to learn from on the player side. Tony G. and Brian Waters on offense and Donnie Edwards and Pat Surtain on defense. Thats about it. These guys were learning from themselves. Most positions didnt even have an veteran to lead the way in the workout and preperation department, just Herms pep talks. We re-signed LJ instead of Jared (maybe biggest mistake in franchise history) Thats why Zach Thomas, Mike Vrabel,Mike Brown,Mike Goff and Bobby Engram are on our team now. These guys will lead by example and by demand. Gunther complained about the same thing when he left.

The second biggest mistake was running the cover 2 in sickness and in health. The cover 2 is already losing the momentum that it had 10 years ago, when you add no pass rush, your finished. The entire scheme is to have the QB release the ball quickly and have people in zones ready to break on the ball. Every cover 2 that ever worked in world history had a good pass rush. What do we do? Get rid of the best pass rusher in football and put our young playmaker (Tamba Hali) on Jared's side, cutting his production down 2/3's.

The combination of the last two points sets our players up for failure, which is the number one thing that you can never do. Herm set these guys up to fail and after reading about a 300 pound OTA weight loss, its only looking worse for Herm. If Herm was still the coach, I dont think that we would be 2-14 like JM suggested, but there is no way that we would be in the position that we are right now from top to bottom.

Here's the thing. It's a myth that Herm's "youth movement" was a good thing. Except for Casey Weigmann , Sammy Knight, Trent Green, and Tony Richardson, Herm didn't get rid of any older players. And he shouldn't have dumped those (except Green). In fact, he signed older players like Ty Law, Boone, Jon McGraw, and Donnie Edwards. Roaf, Shields, Priest, Kennison, Turley, and John Welbourn all retired - aginst Herm's wishes. Kawika Mitchell, Lawrence Tynes, and JA were in their primes when they were stupidly ditched. We cut other people during this time period (obviously), but for incompetence more than age (see Sims, Ryan and Bennett, Michael).

Our team was old in 2005, after Vermiel retired. We needed good young players at every position. Did Herm get any? He brought in only one decent lineman (Albert). He never found a long-term QB. His defensive line picks were disasterous. Less said about his LB acquisitions the better. He did draft Bowe, but only after CP overrode him. His other receiving (WR or TE) picks were terrible. He found some good DBs, but I'd trade the lot of them to have JA back.

Even after an offseason where we signed/drafted a new QB, 2WR, RG, LDE, ROLB, ILB, and maybe FS and RDE, we still have massive holes on both sides of the ball (LOLB, NT, RT). That's because Herm stripped this team of all its talent. He's the Isiah Thomas of the NFL.

[jmlamerson]

you cant say they he never found a long term qb because that is king carls fault. We have not really had a franchise passer since Len Dawson.... Green was great for us but was on borrowed time.

I wasn't saying that the lack of a franchise passer for the entire past few decades (until Cassel) was Herm's fault. But his insistance that he could mold Brodie Croyle into a franchise passer at least retarded the process from 2006 to 2008.

We didn't draft another QB prospect or sign a FA QB because Herm said he had his guy in Brodie. Would we have Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Drew Brees, Trent Edwards, Matt Schaub, Jay Cutler, etc. if Herm hadn't been in love with Brodie? Who knows. Probably not. But Herm said the Chiefs had their QBOTF - and they didn't. It's another failure on his part.

[jmlamerson]

ya but the plenty of chiefs coaches/gms had thought we had out qbotf not just herm.... woo todd blackledge lol

Just because they failed doesn't mean Herm's didn't fail too. However, other coaches succeeded in other areas. Herm succeeded in almost nothing.

[Bike]

Y O U P L A Y To W I N T H E G A M E.

[Hayvern]

Y O U P L A Y To W I N T H E G A M E.

AARRRRGGGHHHHH..

Bike! Darn it, stop dragging your fingers on the chalkboard man!!!

[Hayvern]

I think both of you guys have good points. I was a Herm supporter to a point. My stance definitly started to soften as we went through last year though. Herm did finally get us out of the mold that we were in for 15 years, but didnt do it the right way. The fact that we held on to the our skill position vets too long wasn't his fault and that it was very difficult to rebuild while still winning at that point. That to me is all CP's fault. I think a couple of years from now, we will be very greatful that Herm came in did what he did.

Hold on though, I'm not letting Herm off the hook that easy. There was some huge mistakes that happened while Herm was the head Chief. The number one thing that led to our losing was the fact that the youngest team in the league had NOBODY to learn from on the player side. Tony G. and Brian Waters on offense and Donnie Edwards and Pat Surtain on defense. Thats about it. These guys were learning from themselves. Most positions didnt even have an veteran to lead the way in the workout and preperation department, just Herms pep talks. We re-signed LJ instead of Jared (maybe biggest mistake in franchise history) Thats why Zach Thomas, Mike Vrabel,Mike Brown,Mike Goff and Bobby Engram are on our team now. These guys will lead by example and by demand. Gunther complained about the same thing when he left.

The second biggest mistake was running the cover 2 in sickness and in health. The cover 2 is already losing the momentum that it had 10 years ago, when you add no pass rush, your finished. The entire scheme is to have the QB release the ball quickly and have people in zones ready to break on the ball. Every cover 2 that ever worked in world history had a good pass rush. What do we do? Get rid of the best pass rusher in football and put our young playmaker (Tamba Hali) on Jared's side, cutting his production down 2/3's.

The combination of the last two points sets our players up for failure, which is the number one thing that you can never do. Herm set these guys up to fail and after reading about a 300 pound OTA weight loss, its only looking worse for Herm. If Herm was still the coach, I dont think that we would be 2-14 like JM suggested, but there is no way that we would be in the position that we are right now from top to bottom.

Herm Edwards was an unmitigated disaster from day one. He was a horrible coach with horrible game calling football smarts. He was more interested in having the team like him than actually playing football.

The fact that he cost us a draft pick adds insult to injury. Just about anyone on Chief's Crowd could have outdrafted him, and likely we could have called a better football game than he did.

I just cannot say enough bad things about that guy, the only good thing is that he could come up with a sound bite better than anyone else, other than that, he should be no where near a professional football team again in any capacity. Good riddance.

[Three7s]

I wasn't saying that the lack of a franchise passer for the entire past few decades (until Cassel) was Herm's fault. But his insistance that he could mold Brodie Croyle into a franchise passer at least retarded the process from 2006 to 2008.

We didn't draft another QB prospect or sign a FA QB because Herm said he had his guy in Brodie. Would we have Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Drew Brees, Trent Edwards, Matt Schaub, Jay Cutler, etc. if Herm hadn't been in love with Brodie? Who knows. Probably not. But Herm said the Chiefs had their QBOTF - and they didn't. It's another failure on his part.

Just thought I'd point out that if we got Flacco or Schaub, we wouldn't be any better. Flacco is the most overrated QB I've ever seen.